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Average of minus 298F at night and minus 224F daytime on the moon with drastic temperature difference between sun and shade so I highly doubt Optimus without significant changes is ready for the harshness of space. People underestimate how hard space is. Mars is balmy in comparison with an average of -64 at the equator, midday.
Correction, PLUS 250°F in the daytime (NASA's site corroborates this page).

I include the Quora link because astronauts used spacesuits to equalize the extreme temps. Any reason Optimus, largely as-is, couldn't do the same? The suits would be even simpler as there's no oxygen requirement.

 
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I don’t remember who came up with this, but I bet they’d sell like hotcakes!

51955148684_fa7805c99b.jpg
 
How amazing it is that when Elon started the DOJO project most the people didn't even realize the next few years a chip company will gain +1T in valuation for chips that DOJO is trying to do better and cheaper, because he could see where the puck is going?

I remember when people were laughing at the possibility of Tesla making a foundry, but now with Optimus and xAI, maybe that was not a really crazy idea?

What else was Elon talking about in the last year? What is the next major stuff the majority don't realize will be a major problem/opportunity in the next 2 years?

He said this last year:

"My prediction is we will go from an extreme silicon shortage today, to probably a voltage transformer shortage in a year, and then an electricity shortage in a year into two years".

Yeah, we all know he's not great at timing, but he's generally right.

Electricity shortage sounds scary.
This and some of the responses are useful but are really missing the enormity of the issues that are present now. In part those issues are reflected in some commodity prices, but need a long term view to really know what has happened already:
One example, Copper:
copper-prices-historical-chart-data-2024-01-28-macrotrends.png
Another example:
Still another example, from yesterday:
In Portuguese from O Globo this morning ( translation):
"At least 15 thousand homes and businesses in the Copacabana neighborhood were without electricity for almost 12 hours yesterday. The situation was not normalized until 19: 45. According to Light, the problem was caused by theft of cables from the company's underground network, which ended up causing, according to the concessionaire, overload in the system, especially in points on Santa Clara, Figueiredo de Magalhães and Siqueira Campos streets, in addition to Avenida Nossa Senhora de Copacabana and stretches of Barata Ribeiro Street and Peixoto neighborhood. Internet connections were also disrupted and traffic signals stopped working.
"The overload caused by the theft of cables caused the burning of cables and extensive damage to the electrical network. Because it is an underground network, the defects are not apparent and the company needs to carry out several tests to correct the failures”.
In a condominium on Santa Clara Street, residents reported that transformers in the building exploded around 8 a.m., as a result of the breakdown in the neighborhood. After that, fire officials cordoned off the building. Videos also showed heavy smoke billowing from a manhole at the corner of Figueiredo de Magalhães and Tonelero streets. Light reported that even after repairs to restore power in this part of the neighborhood, the building would still remain without power because the theft caused a short circuit and the burning of a transformer..."
As all of us know there are vastly increasing power outages in the entire world brought about by demand fluctuations caused by climate change which combine with aging infrastructure, including old technology grids.
There are also the periodic infrastructure failures due to voltage transformer failures and the already evident voltage transformer shortages.
Here, for reference is the generic power grid as described in a US-centric view:
ElecPwr_HSW.html
"...In order to cope with the power transmission challenges, China’s government put forward its “Power Transmission from the West to the East” plan in 2005, which stipulated the development of a new 1000 kV UHVAC and ±800 kV UHVDC transmission system. These were expected to increase the power transfer capacity through three important transmission corridors, i.e., the north, mid, and south. With the ascent of renewable energy, this challenge has further increased as – unlike coal – hydro, wind or solar power needs to be transported through long-distance transmission lines from source to end consumer. To this end, China has been installing ultra-high voltage power lines in recent years. These lines transmit energy at 800,000 volts and above, double the voltage of conventional high-voltage lines, allowing them to transmit up to five times more electricity at minimal energy loss. The first UHV line came into operation in 2009 and the system has been expanded to a current network of 31 lines and another 7 lines in the planning over the next 5 years."
Those approaches show the enormous efficiency brought by higher transmission voltages, which also have serious technical and operating challenges.

All of that is part of Elon's "voltage transformer" statement with massive shift in automotive and industrial switch to higher transmission voltages and better technologies.

Bizarrely, perhaps, all that ties quite directly to the long term copper price rises and, perhaps equally serious, supply imbalances. Global grid instability and rapid adoption of wind and solar generates enormous demand for more robust solutions, all fo them increasing demand for energy storage to intermediate supply, demand and distribution imbalances.

Elon knows all this intimately, perhaps more viscerally than anyone other than J B Straubel, who has preached diligently on these subjects since ~2008, and probably before he acquired the TSLA megaphone.

Every part of that is critical to Elon's outlook and Tesla's mission. Every part of that is essential.
FWIW, the Chinese State Grid is pursuing these goals too, and is doing so in obscurity. In the beginning of this post there was yesterday's theft-fomented Copacabana power outage. Just think about that, and weather related outages nearly global in scope, plus repeated energy distribution and generation disasters.

"My prediction is we will go from an extreme silicon shortage today, to probably a voltage transformer shortage in a year, and then an electricity shortage in a year into two years".

This time Elon predicted the past. he's good at that even when nearly all of the world misses the point.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it
as Mark Twain, a Danish proverb and several more said: "it is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future". The corollary "The best way to predict the future is to invent it" is credited to Alan Kay when he was at PARC (look him up, we owe him much of our thanks).

That then establishes Elon's core values. As we consider all this in the context of shareholder value we should be cognizant that only by what Elon calls "Fist Principles" thinking can a sound future be realized.

For those who believe all this, HODL is necessary to realize our own need for a "dear life" to happen at all.
I'm old, for me the Alan Kay era was part of my daily euphoria working with SRI (aka: Stanford research Institute. I learned there that the unimaginable was a limitation of imagination, not reality.

Elon has many seemingly 'throwaway lines' that actually summarize profound realities. This was one such.
It's time for me to allocate some more money to TSLA.
 
I believe these predictions are at the data center level. So the electricity shortage he's predicting here is at at individual data centers, not at your house or city...
Yes, IIRC that was the initial impetus. The comments, though, had much broader reference, not just data centers, which are simply one of the present day most intensive electricity users. The more distributed data manipulation becomes, the broader the distracted energy use will be. After all, nearly every aspect of 2024 life is data intensive and calculation intensive. The better AI becomes, the more neural nets are deployed the more energy needs rise. OTOH when/if someone figures out how to replicate bio-computing at a tiny fraction of human brain efficiency perhaps all those constraints will disappear.

If that happens in my lifetime, our household facilitator will be named "Robbie Calvin".
 
Seeing Tesla touring the CyberTrucks in China currently makes me wonder.

What are people thoughts here about Tesla treating the CyberTruck like the S&X through the end of 2025? As in, instead of introducing the rear wheel drive $60k model in 2025, they instead keep making AWD ($80k) & Trimotor version ($100k) and sending tens of thousands of them to China and other international markets alongside the North American orders.

What are the disadvantages of keeping ASPs higher by sending them overseas?
There are a large number of individually small but lucrative markets that Cybertruck may penetrate, generally with significant aftermarket or even Tesla alternations:
-mining support (now dominated by pickups);
-agricultural support;
-forestry, rural support;
-utility troubleshooting, emergency services;
-fire, police act support;
-even police cars;
-safari vehicles (Toyota Land Cruiser, Land Rover today)
and many more. Once the backlog has been largely cleared we will see a profusion of those solutions.
 
This last paragraph points to the key. Elon, and Tesla, will never waste time doing something someone else is doing well enough to achieve the mission.

If all the other existing Solar providers step up to get the job done Tesla won't be as motivated to storm that castle. If Tesla can offer a turn-key energy generation and storage system for a profit without increasing volume, that helps the mission too.

If Nvidia and AMD can scale their products fast enough, and their products meet Tesla's spec to solve AI, there is no need for Tesla to continue developing compute devices of their own. They can use what they have created, and supplement that with the others.

If, instead, the Tesla compute product has some advantage in AI development, they will continue to grow those resources AND still buy everything they can from the other manufacturers. Much as they do with batteries.

The mission is the focus.
Solar pretty much is all about scale and making them cheap. The solar roof has innovation but still requires work to make the install easier.

When it comes to AI chip it's another story. Amd and Nvidia holds the majority of the GPU ip while TSMC is the world's most advanced fab. The barrier to entry is near impossible as we see chip giant Intel struggle even though they have been making igpu for 2 decades.

However Dojo main ability is its from scratch design with massive focus on interconnects as Tesla predicts gigantic models eventually bottle necking the design from other manufactures. Even though amd has multichip design using infinity fabric and Nvidia using infiniband, both are extremely fast, but cabinets to cabinet interconnect still needs work.

But yea the problem here is cost. 40k for a Nvidia gpu and 15k for an amd one is literally the cost of a car. If Tesla can get one working at half cost then it's a huge win.
 
Correction, PLUS 250°F in the daytime (NASA's site corroborates this page).

I include the Quora link because astronauts used spacesuits to equalize the extreme temps. Any reason Optimus, largely as-is, couldn't do the same? The suits would be even simpler as there's no oxygen requirement.

oops sorry about the typo but the point remains the extreme change in temperature means the common misconception by many posters that it's relatively easy for Optimus or the CT the operate in the harsh temperatures on the moon, mars and space without significant design changes is not valid. Of course it can be done but it will be a ton of engineering work to make it happen.
 
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Only mildly off topic but I wonder how much of the price reductions/margin drop are a result of Tesla becoming "scummy" at some locations?

We've purchased a dozen MS's, and noticed some questionable behavior of late, particularly when a Plaid from Hell became a 9-month Lemon Law claim with Tesla being, in the words of our attorney, "The worst company we deal with, by far."

Here's the latest example which I find mind-blowing--ELON: FIX THIS BS!


Reputation matters . . . .
 
This might be even more telling:
Despite the pure political party tilt, perhaps the most important things are the NADA positions and their membership views on issues:
-fuel economy standards: oppose
-BEV specific policies: every one I find they oppose
- auto dealer far lending restrictions: oppose
-State laws prohibiting OEM direct sales: support!
-State laws prohibiting OEM direct customer service: support!
-State laws prohibiting OEM warranty and/or service: support!

It is transparently evident that auto dealers are opposed to anything TSLA, for the vast majority.
I must admit I jumped the gun with my post. I should have emplaced a preamble along the lines of “With all the evidence that automobile dealers and their trade association NADA have broad and deep opposition to EVs generally, and Tesla’s sales model specifically, as @unk45 will explain in a forthcoming post (😂), I believe it appropriate to learn all we can of the pervasiveness of auto dealers in the halls of our state and federal lawmaking bodies.”
 
Average of minus 298F at night and minus 224F daytime on the moon with drastic temperature difference between sun and shade so I highly doubt Optimus without significant changes is ready for the harshness of space. People underestimate how hard space is. Mars is balmy in comparison with an average of -64 at the equator, midday.
It'd also need radiation hardening if it were not withing a shielded environment... for example: if a fleet of Optimii were sent ahead of humans to build the shielded habitat for them...
 
I include the Quora link because astronauts used spacesuits to equalize the extreme temps. Any reason Optimus, largely as-is, couldn't do the same? The suits would be even simpler as there's no oxygen requirement.

Moving, and manipulating objects, would be entirely different in a space suit (and in different gravity for that matter) compared to not, so they'd likely have to retrain every single thing including just walking. And it's not like they've got a ton of video of people doing stuff on mars to train it with either. Plus given the nature of spacesuits they're also not meant to be worn for super extended lengths of time either nor have pass-through charge ports.

Spacesuits also cost north of a billion-with-a-b dollars each. It's almost certain to be far cheaper (but still not cheap) to just design a space-hardened version of the bot compared to putting each of them in a spacesuit than it would be to design a bot-suit, mass produce it, and retrain everything to operate in it.
(though if you want to debate that I'd strongly suggest doing it here:)
 
The hype that cybertruck ramping and plans were sandbagged and that it would overtake the F150 did not come from Tesla. That hype was generated here in this thread.

At this point, I think the posts about Tesla sandbagging and pushing optimism beyond what Tesla stated are just as bad as the posts from people about how Elon lied, Tesla is doomed, etc.

My opinion is that this thread should aim for facts in both numbers and what was actually said. Elon doesn't sandbag. He's an optimistic, which results in the opposite of sandbaggging.

Certainly not true. I clearly remember Elon talking about how they want to take on F150 (and noting that is the largest selling vehicle in US) and recling trucks is an important part of electrification. He even said - if the CT design/looks is too polarizing they will make a "normal" truck that will sell in large numbers to take on F150. This was in some interview / podcast ....

When I'm completely jobless I'll waste my time doing that - it should be simple enough to search if you are really interested.

BTW, this is the reason a lot of us have stopped posting in this thread. This thread now gets 1/10th of the traffic it used to.

People have already subsequently posted (and I did a few days ago), Elon's statement that you refer to.

You realize that recognizing the value of an EV in the sizable truck market, and suggesting that it might take a more conventional truck design to make inroads there, is the opposite of sandbagging sales projections, right?
 
Worth noting (and expected): The Berlin supply shortage turns into "Scheduled" Maintenance - little impact expected.

"Also, all factories stop production for a few weeks every year for maintenance and retooling work, and Tesla will also use this time for it too. Therefore, I do not expect any negative impact on annual production output in 2024."
 
Chevy Blazer EV. This is the most scathing auto review imaginable. "I couldn't wait to get out of this car". Consumer Reports may be biased against Tesla, but they've never been so brutal as this.

Later in the video, there is a Q&A with a question about the drive train of the future and how quickly EVs might take over. The Consumer Reports guys see relatively slow EV adoption in the US. As much as I tend to have faith in Tony Seba, I'm worried that Consumer Reports could be right because the big three are so inept.

Tesla can't do this alone. It's possible that the only way to electrify the US fleet and meet our climate goals is to allow BYD to come in without tariffs. Not gonna happen.

(emphasis mine)

Or, like Xerox, Sears, Blockbuster, Kodak, etc... seeming titans of industry that fail to adapt can see their sales and influence shrink (in some cases rapidly), and simply cease to exist while their nimble upstart competitors not beholden to the ways of yesteryear pass them by...

The transition appears to be the writing on the wall... and while it's possible the Big 3 dragging their feet will slow it some, I suspect in that case the real speedup will be that of their demise...
 
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Then I guess it was good that Tesla did not provide guidance for this year, as there are too many parts of the world unraveling at the moment. Sigh...

There will always be parts of the world unraveling.

The difference in one's perception of it is based upon whether news of any particular unraveling makes it as a headline locally for the one then perceiving it as significant.