Blog Tesla Unveils Tabless Battery Cell That Boosts Range by 16%

Tesla unveiled Tuesday at its Battery Day event a new 4680 battery cell, a larger form factor that would increase range by 16%.

Tesla said the new cells will have a 5x  increase in energy and a 6x increase in power capacity. The new cell is 46mm by 80mm, featuring a “tabless” design that enables the efficiencies.

Tesla has reduced parts, created a better electrical connection from the battery, and simplified the manufacturing process. The efficiency in the manufacturing process of the new cell is expected to reduce the price per kWh by 14%. Tesla hopes to eventually reduce that price by 50%.

Tesla is currently producing the cells at a facility near its factory in Fremont, Calif.

Musk also raved about efforts to make the battery factory more efficient, driving home the idea that battery production needs to speed up in order for EVs to have a significant impact on climate change. Musk said it will be a “highway” at “max-velocity” once at scale. Still, Tesla’s new homegrown cells are not expected to reach mass production until 2022. 

Musk said it will take a year for the first facility to reach its 10 GWh production capacity.

Musk hinted that the new battery design will lead to savings necessary for Tesla to introduce a $25,000 electric vehicle.

Watch the full presentation here.

 

[ICUDoc]

Ha ha.. this reminds me of a quote from Neil deGrasse Tyson:

"A great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know you are wrong."

Ha!
It is a genuinely apt quote, much like the Confucian "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know" etc.
However: apparently I don't know enough to understand what you are trying to say here
Do you agree with me?

 

[Mrbrock]

Tesla is getting ready to deliver the Texas built MY’s with the new 4680, by the end of Q1; WHY haven’t they published the Range & HP specs and let the number speak for themselves?

Why, because they haven’t changed. Tesla will program the motors to be a bit slower to offset the weight savings so acceleration is identical and they will reduce battery capacity physically so the range stays the same at 330.

 

[Msicario]

Why, because they haven’t changed. Tesla will program the motors to be a bit slower to offset the weight savings so acceleration is identical and they will reduce battery capacity physically so the range stays the same at 330.

Thank you so much Finally someone makes sense.. but wait, why the promise that the 4680 would increase the Range by 14-18% ? When we know they can control the Range & Power regardless of the battery

 

[tangible1]

Yes, we’ve read all the specs and seen the battery and structural packs and how much cheaper it is; Lots more money for Tesla BUT NO TRUE REAL PUBLISHED SPECS. ‍♂
I’m sure they will definitely used the 4680 to build that $27K economy Tesla.

there will be no $27K economy car. at least not in North America.
and Tesla at the Q4 Earnings Call said they are NOT WORKING ON IT at this time and not to expect any new products this year.

 

[tangible1]

Thank you so much Finally someone makes sense.. but wait, why the promise that the 4680 would increase the Range by 14-18% ? When we know they can control the Range & Power regardless of the battery

the 4680 was always described as increasing range POTENTIAL.
Tesla never said if or when they would offer such additional range.

Tesla leverages the blogsphere very well - the blogs ran with it and fanbois gobbled it up.

 

[Brando]

Tesla not yet producing 4680 -- a work in progress. After ramp up and steady production, actually testing begins and Tesla can give us actual specs.

 

[tangible1]

Tesla not yet producing 4680 -- a work in progress. After ramp up and steady production, actually testing begins and Tesla can give us actual specs.

Tesla has been manufacturing 4680 batteries at their Kato Road facility since mid 2021.
The manufacturing yield wasn't good initially, but has been steady improving. Sometime last summer, they started warehousing QC passed 4680's.
Yield has now risen to the point where Tesla is comfortatble starting MY production (at Fremont and Austin) and SEMI prototype builds.
Note that Berlin will NOT be using 4680 batteries initially - they're using 2170 and LFP. China remains a mystery re:4680; probably Panasonic in Japan supplies them.
Going forward, they are counting on 3rd party producers coming to market to help meet their production needs.

So 4680 batteries remain precious but are available for Tesla's planned needs 2022. But they won't be given away cheap.

 

[Mrbrock]

Note that Berlin will NOT be using 4680 batteries initially - they're using 2170 and LFP. China remains a mystery re:4680; probably Panasonic in Japan supplies them.
Going forward, they are counting on 3rd party producers coming to market to help meet their production needs.

Panasonic has said hey won’t have 4680 production until 2023 (assume that means Reno and/or Japan).

The whole 14-18% range was for 4680 and megacasts. And based on using same physical volume of cells. Which would be a increase of kWh comparatively. You won’t get 14-18% increased range from reduced weight at the same kwh as current packs. You would need to increase aerodynamics to see that much jump. Maybe 3-5%. So Tesla will make the packs maybe back to the original 78 kWh spec and even out power and acceleration through programming. Saving 4680 for the not new products they will make in 2022 (semi + ?).

 

[brucet999]

How does more power give you more range? When it comes to the batteries, Isn’t range about capacity (kWh) rather than power (kW)?

Power is what drives the wheels, so more power = more range.
kWh in the battery = energy, but only produces power when delivered to the motor(s). If internal resistance in the batteries consumes energy in the form of waste heat. then power is reduced. Tabless 4680 delivers 16% more of its energy to the wheels because it loses that much less to heat loss from internal resistance.

 

[Msicario]

Power is what drives the wheels, so more power = more range.
kWh in the battery = energy, but only produces power when delivered to the motor(s). If internal resistance in the batteries consumes energy in the form of waste heat. then power is reduced. Tabless 4680 delivers 16% more of its energy to the wheels because it loses that much less to heat loss from internal resistance.

So why is the 18650 (AAA) battery being used on the Model S/Plaid rocket and getting over 400 mile range?
Model X, Model 3, M3P, MY, MYLR, MYP, all using the 2170 (AA) all vary in Range using the same battery

So what does the new game changer 4680 (D) bring to the table other than being cheaper to make with a structural battery packs in the chassis; Lots more profit for Tesla.. but we’ve yet to see/read published range & power specs on it

 

[ICUDoc]

Ha ha.. this reminds me of a quote from Neil deGrasse Tyson:

"A great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know you are wrong."

Power is what drives the wheels, so more power = more range.
kWh in the battery = energy, but only produces power when delivered to the motor(s). If internal resistance in the batteries consumes energy in the form of waste heat. then power is reduced. Tabless 4680 delivers 16% more of its energy to the wheels because it loses that much less to heat loss from internal resistance.

Even more apt, now.
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it.

 

[Mrbrock]

So why is the 18650 (AAA) battery being used on the Model S/Plaid rocket and getting over 400 mile range?
Model X, Model 3, M3P, MY, MYLR, MYP, all using the 2170 (AA) all vary in Range using the same battery

So what does the new game changer 4680 (D) bring to the table other than being cheaper to make with a structural battery packs in the chassis; Lots more profit for Tesla.. but we’ve yet to see/read published range & power specs on it

It has nothing to do with which battery, you need to stop focusing on the cell format. If you stuff enough cells and get enough kWh you will increase the range (MS is around 100kwh compared to 82kwh for LR M3, 25% more capacity but only 14% more range). Type doesn’t matter. Total storage does. Weight affects range, so does aerodynamics. That is why a M3 and MY with the exact same battery pack get different ranges. 4680 benefits are less battery wall material so for the same kWh there is less non storage material so there can be more storage in a similar space.

And you also need to stop asking about power for the 4680. They don’t provide any power. Batteries are energy storage. Motors turn that energy into power. So if the motors are the same the battery type won’t matter for performance if weight and capacity are the same.

 

[Msicario]

It has nothing to do with which battery, you need to stop focusing on the cell format. If you stuff enough cells and get enough kWh you will increase the range (MS is around 100kwh compared to 82kwh for LR M3, 25% more capacity but only 14% more range). Type doesn’t matter. Total storage does. Weight affects range, so does aerodynamics. That is why a M3 and MY with the exact same battery pack get different ranges. 4680 benefits are less battery wall material so for the same kWh there is less non storage material so there can be more storage in a similar space.

And you also need to stop asking about power for the 4680. They don’t provide any power. Batteries are energy storage. Motors turn that energy into power. So if the motors are the same the battery type won’t matter for performance if weight and capacity are the same.

Thanks Got It and of course range also depends upon, temperature, tire size and one’s driving habits

 

[Mrbrock]

Thanks Got It and of course range also depends upon, temperature, tire size and one’s driving habits

But there are standard tests to compare one car to the next (excludes driving habits). In the US it is the EPA. Which has no real world correlation for most EVs.

 

[Msicario]

Thanks Got It and of course range also depends upon, temperature, tire size and one’s driving habits

Sorry for asking to many questions: So the Lucid Air packs more batteries (2170) in order to get over 500 miles?

 

[Mrbrock]

Sorry for asking to many questions: So the Lucid Air packs more batteries (2170) in order to get over 500 miles?

Reports suggest 118 kwh battery pack (google is your friend on this). Fueleconomy.gov is a way to compare MPGe (relative efficiency and cost/mile based on a set electric rate). For instance you can see the MS costs $50 more per year to operate than the M3 or Lucid Air:

 

[Msicario]

Reports suggest 118 kwh battery pack (google is your friend on this). Fueleconomy.gov is a way to compare MPGe (relative efficiency and cost/mile based on a set electric rate). For instance you can see the MS costs $50 more per year to operate than the M3 or Lucid Air:
View attachment 767601

Thanks; Interesting.. NIO (China) has announced a 150 kWh solid state battery for 2022, (ultra-high energy density solid-state cells) they produced a 100kWh in 2020. Are they so far ahead of the game?

 

[Mrbrock]

Thanks; Interesting.. NIO (China) has announced a 150 kWh solid state battery for 2022, (ultra-high energy density solid-state cells) they produced a 100kWh in 2020. Are they so far ahead of the game?

Unless you can compare actual energy densities then who knows? Tesla can produce a 300kwh battery for Model S to give it 1000+ miles of range. It’ll be 3 times the size of the current battery. You just add more cells to get more total storage.

 

[Msicario]

Unless you can compare actual energy densities then who knows? Tesla can produce a 300kwh battery for Model S to give it 1000+ miles of range. It’ll be 3 times the size of the current battery. You just add more cells to get more total storage.

Can’t imagine what that 300kWh battery in a Tesla will cost
Why don’t Teslas MY’s in particular come close to delivering the actual advertised range in real driving life? And immediately begin dropping their range, specially after the first year in use?

 

[Electroman]

Ha!
It is a genuinely apt quote, much like the Confucian "To know what you know, and to know what you don't know" etc.
However: apparently I don't know enough to understand what you are trying to say here
Do you agree with me?

I agree with your observation. My comment was attempt to dig at the other poster who was confusing with more power = more range. Rookie mistake. And when they say it with authority, it is even more funny !!