Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

[Redhill_qik]

I have three power walls, which would give me about 20 kWh of power storage. There is no way this would support my house more than a day or two, much less any neighbors, and that's if I turn off nearly everything and never charge my cars.

It seems people don't realize just how much energy their houses and lifestyles use. I live in a 400 sq ft house, run mainly a refrigerator and a small AC, and I'd bet my usage is well over 7 kWh per day. More like 13, and that DOES NOT include charging the cars.

20 kWh is only a fifth of what my car uses, and we also have a 3. When our power was out last time, for a month, the solar and PWs were not able to keep things running. Seems the PWs don't work when the grid is down. But even if they did, one would have to cut usage a bunch.

@roblab The numbers in your post don't add up. First with three power walls you would have 40.5 kWh of storage, not 20. You mention being in a 400 (typo?) sqft house and consuming 7-13 kWh/day, but you weren't able to keep the power going in your house when you have 11 kW of PV (another post of yours), plus the 3 power walls because PWs don't work when the grid is down? Powerwalls are what allow you to keep the power on when the grid goes down.

You did says that "people don't realize just how much energy their house uses" and I think that you are likely in that camp.

 

[cali8484]

I have three power walls, which would give me about 20 kWh of power storage. There is no way this would support my house more than a day or two, much less any neighbors, and that's if I turn off nearly everything and never charge my cars.

It seems people don't realize just how much energy their houses and lifestyles use. I live in a 400 sq ft house, run mainly a refrigerator and a small AC, and I'd bet my usage is well over 7 kWh per day. More like 13, and that DOES NOT include charging the cars.

20 kWh is only a fifth of what my car uses, and we also have a 3. When our power was out last time, for a month, the solar and PWs were not able to keep things running. Seems the PWs don't work when the grid is down. But even if they did, one would have to cut usage a bunch.

Just for reference, average home usage is 30kWh per day. 20kWh does not seem correct capacity for 3 PW's. Do you mean what you were able to actually charge the 3 PW's? Perhaps your PV array is undersized to fully charge 3 PW's on a regular basis. However, it's true that most people don't realize how much energy is required for normal lifestyle. Even with 3 PW's it's not surprising that you need to cut back on usage for a month long outage. That's why most off-grid people have a generator as backup to their PV system.

 

[ojuarez01]

I have three power walls, which would give me about 20 kWh of power storage. There is no way this would support my house more than a day or two, much less any neighbors, and that's if I turn off nearly everything and never charge my cars.

It seems people don't realize just how much energy their houses and lifestyles use. I live in a 400 sq ft house, run mainly a refrigerator and a small AC, and I'd bet my usage is well over 7 kWh per day. More like 13, and that DOES NOT include charging the cars.

20 kWh is only a fifth of what my car uses, and we also have a 3. When our power was out last time, for a month, the solar and PWs were not able to keep things running. Seems the PWs don't work when the grid is down. But even if they did, one would have to cut usage a bunch.

I don't think virtual power plant is there to provide power at regular rates. I believe Tesla is going after a slice of the trillion dollar global peaker plant market.

 

[ojuarez01]

Time to start spam tweeting at Elon.

 

[jhn_]

Time to start spam tweeting at Elon.

For what? This is a utility issue. Tesla agrees to participate and create the VPP with the utility but the utility sets the payment rates. If the financial amount doesn’t make sense for the control you give to Tesla over your batteries, don’t sign up.

 

[ojuarez01]

For what? This is a utility issue. Tesla agrees to participate and create the VPP with the utility but the utility sets the payment rates. If the financial amount doesn’t make sense for the control you give to Tesla over your batteries, don’t sign up.

I meant for the actual launch of it. It's supposed to launch today but I'm not seeing anything.

 

[bmah]

I meant for the actual launch of it. It's supposed to launch today but I'm not seeing anything.

It's still early in the day.

Bruce.

 

[astrorob]

any idea if this requires new firmware on the powerwalls themselves? i was recently downgraded back to 20.49.0 and was wondering if the newer FW is required. the release notes imply that 21.13.2 would give more status info about the virtual power plant activity but does not seem to be a requirement.

strangely it took until yesterday for the update to the iOS app to appear in my app store account but i guess that's how it goes when you have a billion devices (or whatever) out there...

 

[power.saver]

any idea if this requires new firmware on the powerwalls themselves? i was recently downgraded back to 20.49.0 and was wondering if the newer FW is required. the release notes imply that 21.13.2 would give more status info about the virtual power plant activity but does not seem to be a requirement.

strangely it took until yesterday for the update to the iOS app to appear in my app store account but i guess that's how it goes when you have a billion devices (or whatever) out there...

The website I linked in the first post says:

Enrolling in the Tesla Virtual Power Plant in California requires the Tesla app 3.10.14 and a new Powerwall firmware version which will be released soon.

So it is likely that the PW firmware will be upgraded.

 

[power.saver]

The website has been updated with more information:

Tesla Virtual Power Plant With PG&E | Tesla Support

Participate in the Emergency Load Reduction Program (ELRP) pilot offered by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and support the grid while also earning compensation and maintaining your energy security.

www.tesla.com

 

[miimura]

Does Tesla earn money from the Tesla Virtual Power Plant in California?​

As of launch, the Tesla Virtual Power Plant is a public good program to support the California grid, and there is no compensation for Tesla or customers. While customer compensation for this program is a possibility in the future, in the meantime customers are encouraged to participate in the program and mobilize the excess capacity of their Powerwall systems.

No, thanks.

 

[ElectricCyclist]

No, thanks.

I agree that it is frustrating not to be compensated but I am going to try it out and participate for awhile. My service is quite reliable so I don't expect needing the powerwalls for emergency use and they will be discharging the battery during the peak rates which also helps my bill. We will see how it goes if I am able to participate and how often they call these events.

 

[miimura]

ELRP is $1,000/MWh. Why can't Tesla get on board with something at the CPUC and get us half that amount - $0.50/kWh???

Emergency Load Reduction Program

www.cpuc.ca.gov

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Does Tesla earn money from the Tesla Virtual Power Plant in California?​

As of launch, the Tesla Virtual Power Plant is a public good program to support the California grid, and there is no compensation for Tesla or customers. While customer compensation for this program is a possibility in the future, in the meantime customers are encouraged to participate in the program and mobilize the excess capacity of their Powerwall systems.

You've GOT to be kidding me! Like I am going to give SCE FREE power out of the goodness of my heart?!?! This has to be a total joke. So much hype for a complete nothingburger. I'll keep my stored energy usage for my OWN personal use, thank you!

 

[ElectricCyclist]

Does Tesla earn money from the Tesla Virtual Power Plant in California?​

As of launch, the Tesla Virtual Power Plant is a public good program to support the California grid, and there is no compensation for Tesla or customers. While customer compensation for this program is a possibility in the future, in the meantime customers are encouraged to participate in the program and mobilize the excess capacity of their Powerwall systems.

You've GOT to be kidding me! Like I am going to give SCE FREE power out of the goodness of my heart?!?! This has to be a total joke. So much hype for a complete nothingburger. I'll keep my stored energy usage for my OWN personal use, thank you!

The California Regulated Utility business is a complicated one but SCE doesn't make money on energy produced they make money on a set ROI on infrastructure installed to serve. Really this is related to the California Independent System Operator (ISO) as they will be calling these events in the future but in the end events like this will fall back into rate base in the future.

 

[Incredulocious]

Does Tesla earn money from the Tesla Virtual Power Plant in California?​

As of launch, the Tesla Virtual Power Plant is a public good program to support the California grid, and there is no compensation for Tesla or customers. While customer compensation for this program is a possibility in the future, in the meantime customers are encouraged to participate in the program and mobilize the excess capacity of their Powerwall systems.

You've GOT to be kidding me! Like I am going to give SCE FREE power out of the goodness of my heart?!?! This has to be a total joke. So much hype for a complete nothingburger. I'll keep my stored energy usage for my OWN personal use, thank you!

No, not free power, you’ll still get your NEM credits just as you do when exporting excess solar generation now:

Will participation in this program impact my electric bill?​

Tesla expects most events this summer to occur during typical peak hours for many time-of-use rate plans. Participating in the event will shift energy exports to periods that are later in the day compared to typical exports. If you are eligible for compensation under a NEM program, you may earn different credit for exporting at different times.

 

[ojuarez01]

I agree that it is frustrating not to be compensated but I am going to try it out and participate for awhile. My service is quite reliable so I don't expect needing the powerwalls for emergency use and they will be discharging the battery during the peak rates which also helps my bill. We will see how it goes if I am able to participate and how often they call these events.

I'll be joining with you. This is cutting edge technology that I want to be a part of. This is a chance to show our power to operate as a giant distributed utility. This is especially important in California as we get hit by both climate change and by an anti-solar movement (I'm looking at you NEM 3.0).

Elon stated in the Q1 earnings call:

“I'm not sure how many people will actually understand this, but this is extremely profound,” Musk said. “And necessary, because we are headed towards a world where [...] people are moving towards electric vehicles.”

He adds that if everyone in the US drove an electric car, we would need twice as much electricity as we have today.

"The utilities will not be able to react fast enough... because there is a massive change going on with the transition to electric transport and we're seeing more extreme weather events. This is a recipe for disaster"

So I'm onboard even if it means I'm a guinea pig and help prove the technology. This is the change I want to see in the world and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

At worst, I lose battery cycles and get some credits for it.

At best, we prove the technology to people and governments as well as take a big chunk out of the fossil fueled peaker plant energy market.

 

[Incredulocious]

I'll be joining with you. This is cutting edge technology that I want to be a part of. This is a chance to show our power to operate as a giant distributed utility. This is especially important in California as we get hit by both climate change and by an anti-solar movement (I'm looking at you NEM 3.0).

Yeah, I agree. I’ll be trying it out. And apparently we’ll get advance notification of an event so that we can adjust our Powerwall reserve limit to preserve our backup capacity if we feel that we’ll need it.

 

[h2ofun]

No, not free power, you’ll still get your NEM credits just as you do when exporting excess solar generation now:

Since I start running 100% off batteries at 3pm, how would this program change anything I do right now?

And with my AC use, and 3 batteries, I drain them to like 15% with just my own use. There is nothing else to give, but I am off grid totally to not need grid power.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

No, not free power, you’ll still get your NEM credits just as you do when exporting excess solar generation now:

Yes, so the only difference is instead of pulling power from your PV, they pull from ESS (which could be when you are not generating PV). Paltry NEM credits aren't really worth it seeing as the TrueUp rate at the end of your 12 month period is so low that in the end if you over generate, you'll be paid a few pennies per kWH (essentially free). For me, I'd rather have any excess generation saved for my use, and considering it's summer time, with AC usage, I'm having to dip into the grid anyway.