Tesla's production number growth and impact on Service Centers

[Kenz]

Does anyone know where you can track the growth of Tesla stores and galleries, service centers, superchargers and destination chargers so that their growth can be compared to the increase in vehicle production year over year ?
It would be interesting to see how many new service centers or delivery centers opened up in the US during 2018 to keep up with the Model 3 ramp.

 

[Knightshade]

They're not even remotely keeping pace regarding service or delivery centers

This was something obvious to everyone going back to the original Model 3 launch in 2017, but Elon only "noticed" it a few months ago.

Elon Musk sees ‘foolish oversight’ of Tesla’s service coverage, announces major expansion of service centers

For context- At the end of Q1 2016, Tesla had 61 service centers in the US. Today, almost 3 years (and massively more cars on the road) later- they have 77 of them.

 

[voip-ninja]

Does anyone know where you can track the growth of Tesla stores and galleries, service centers, superchargers and destination chargers so that their growth can be compared to the increase in vehicle production year over year ?
It would be interesting to see how many new service centers or delivery centers opened up in the US during 2018 to keep up with the Model 3 ramp.

You could use waybackmachine and look at Tesla's webpage that lists all of their service and delivery locations.

Tesla is between a rock and a hard place. They have to continue expanding their service network, which is extremely expensive (10's of millions of dollars I would imagine) and requires them to bring on new service employees at the same time they are cutting thousands of jobs. Only the very oldest cars (and repairs on cars that have been damaged) that need service net Tesla any money. Service is a money loser and Tesla knows it but if they don't service the cars better then customers will bail when other manufacturers with excellent service get up to speed on EV.

I imagine that morale at Tesla is terrible right now.... employees who survived the last big layoff breath a sigh of relief when Tesla posts a record profitable quarter and then less than 90 days later Tesla is letting 7% go at a time when they continue needing to grow their services division.

 

[SMAlset]

While the Superchargers have been expanding or new ones have come on line in 2018, the service centers have lagged more behind. Out here in Teslaland we did get a new Tesla Body Shop late last year. I understand that they were going to be adding new third body shops as additional locations got trained and certified. If you go to Tesla’s charging map, you’ll get a better feel for SvC and Superchargers. You have to go elsewhere on the site to find the 3rd party body shops—list by city/state as I recall.

While Tesla has been expanding on many fronts and we all would like to see more services available to us, I do think we have to remember that their main focus was on getting the Model 3 production up and running smoothly and now to branch out to Europe and China with Model 3 sales. Also there’s that money situation and profitability to work through which I feel held back a certain amount of expansion plans. We live in an area with an expanding Tesla driving base...today I counted at least 10 Teslas just this morning (mixed models and many without plates yet and temp stickers still). I’d love to see a SvC go in near our area to make any servicing needs more convenient. Sure that if their travel patterns shows a high enough count of vehicles through this area one might get added at some point. Land here in the Bay area for a service center has got to be awfully pricey and hard to find enough space in a highly accessible location for people. The Santa Clara SvC is in an industrial/office park section and a bit out of the way. Was converted to a SvC from an existing building. Suspect at least in this area we might be seeing more of that happening as opposed to new construction.

 

[RDoc]

Tesla isn't going to expand their service centers until the lost business affects their bottom line more than the cost of new service centers would. Tesla is a business, get used to it.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

Elon Musk said Tesla would fill its North American service gaps in three to six months. Three months later, not a single US service center has opened.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I feel like they could relieve and enormous amount of pressure on the service centers if they just shipped cars that didn't require service at the time of delivery. The service center in San Diego is FULL of Model 3s and I don't think they're all there to get their tires rotated. They should also look in to extending the service interval on coolant and brake fluid to match ICE vehicles. I imagine keeping commonly needed parts in stock would also help.

 

[mspohr]

Elon Musk said Tesla would fill its North American service gaps in three to six months. Three months later, not a single US service center has opened.

I recently scheduled service for air bag recall on my Model S. I was able to find appointments at three different California service centers within a week so they seem to be keeping up in their busiest market.
When they say they will open centers in 3 to 6 months, that means 3 to 6 months, not before 3 months.

 

[Knightshade]

I feel like they could relieve and enormous amount of pressure on the service centers if they just shipped cars that didn't require service at the time of delivery. The service center in San Diego is FULL of Model 3s and I don't think they're all there to get their tires rotated. They should also look in to extending the service interval on coolant and brake fluid to match ICE vehicles. I imagine keeping commonly needed parts in stock would also help.

Brake fluid is every 2 years- same as some ICE vehicles I've had.

Coolant is every 4 years, this is only 20% shorter than some ICE I've had (or one extra change per decade compared to the longest change one I've owned), and since it's a vastly different type of cooling system cooling entirely different types of motors that doesn't seem unreasonable.


Unlike ICE vehicles though that's pretty much all the routine service they ever need (other than tire rotation you can get done anywhere)

 

[Uncle Paul]

My observation is totally different than the bent of these posts.

About a year ago, I thought Tesla was being foolish. Every where I went new Superchargers were popping up. Even in areas where congestion was obviously not a problem.

i went to the 40 stall Kettleman charger, with the solar panels plus snack bar, barrista service and Wi-Fi work stations for travelers. It was crickets for almost the entire year (just now getting some usage). Burbank had a large, and mostly empty facility next to a shopping mall. Baker had some empty slots and Eddie world (in the middle of no-where) had a bank by their ice cream shop.

Everwhere I looked there were Superchargers with almost nobody using them.
Thought Tesla has lost their marbles, spending all this money, for just a few uses a day.

Then the flood gates opened up and the Model 3s began to flood out of the factory.

Tesla was obviously ahead of the game in many of these places, but now they are starting to be used, and you can see the wisdom of Teslas planning.

New approved body shops are popping up all over the place, and they initially worked on just a few cars, but now are coming up to speed, just as the higher volumes are getting to customers.

The service centers have been augmented by Delivery Centers. This takes some of the load off the service centers, just as the volume is getting overwhelming.

Hard to say that Tesla has been guilty of poor planning here. Believe their main challenge has been getting all their planned facilities through the maze of regional red tape and the lack of trained, intelligent, willing workers to staff the positions.

They are running hard, but the challenge of providing all the support needed is a daunting one.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Brake fluid is every 2 years- same as some ICE vehicles I've had.

Coolant is every 4 years, this is only 20% shorter than some ICE I've had (or one extra change per decade compared to the longest change one I've owned), and since it's a vastly different type of cooling system cooling entirely different types of motors that doesn't seem unreasonable.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of modern cars have 10 year/120k mile coolant intervals these days (my 2000 Nissan did).
The Toyota Prius has no brake fluid replacement interval and 10 year/120k mile coolant (https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-18Prius/pdf/T-MMS-18Prius.pdf)

Unlike ICE vehicles though that's pretty much all the routine service they ever need (other than tire rotation you can get done anywhere)

In theory that's great but in practice Teslas require more service than most ICE vehicles. Obviously time will tell with the Model 3 but I wouldn't bet on it requiring less service. I knew what I was getting in to so I'm fine with it.

 

[mspohr]

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of modern cars have 10 year/120k mile coolant intervals these days (my 2000 Nissan did).
The Toyota Prius has no brake fluid replacement interval and 10 year/120k mile coolant (https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-18Prius/pdf/T-MMS-18Prius.pdf)


In theory that's great but in practice Teslas require more service than most ICE vehicles. Obviously time will tell with the Model 3 but I wouldn't bet on it requiring less service. I knew what I was getting in to so I'm fine with it.

Just keep doing those oil changes every three months and you'll be fine.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Just keep doing those oil changes every three months and you'll be fine.

Actually it is 10k miles or once a year for their hybrids. Toyota Synthetic 0W-20 FTW. It’s like water but that is all those Toyota engines need.

Toyotas are not like Subarus, that’s for sure.

 

[mspohr]

Actually it is 10k miles or once a year for their hybrids. Toyota Synthetic 0W-20 FTW.

But Daniel says Teslas require more service so best to do it every three months.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But Daniel says Teslas require more service so best to do it every three months.

I’m confused by this post.

In any case, I don’t think he is arguing that the standard maintenance schedule of the Tesla is more “arduous” than that of an ICE. I think his concern is more the unscheduled maintenance schedule, which as he said, he knew what he was getting into...

We’ll see what happens!

 

[mspohr]

I’m confused by this post.

In any case, I don’t think he is arguing that the standard maintenance schedule of the Tesla is more “arduous” than that of an ICE. I think his concern is more the unscheduled maintenance schedule, which as he said, he knew what he was getting into...

We’ll see what happens!

Hard to know what Daniel was thinking. I was confused which is why I recommended (in jest) three month oil changes.
If he is predicting higher than ICE car expenses, you could look to my experience with my Model S which at 72,000 miles and four years I have had zero unscheduled maintenance expenses and also zero scheduled maintenance expenses.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of modern cars have 10 year/120k mile coolant intervals these days (my 2000 Nissan did).
The Toyota Prius has no brake fluid replacement interval and 10 year/120k mile coolant (https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-18Prius/pdf/T-MMS-18Prius.pdf)

I'm curious about this magic brake fluid the Prius uses that never absorbs water from the air like literally every other brake fluid ever made and thus never needs to be changed.

Can you tell us more?


Regardless, many other cars made in the last 10 years, which I assume qualifies as modern, still have brake fluid change intervals of 2 or 3 years- directly comparable to the Model 3.

In theory that's great but in practice Teslas require more service than most ICE vehicles. .

On which page of the manual can I find the required services beyond just cabin filter, coolant and brake fluid changes for the model 3?

On my current ICE vehicle for example I have to do all of the following routinely/on some regular basis, which don't exist on a Tesla, so I'm curious what "more" the 3 will need than this:

Differential fluid change
Transfer case fluid change
Engine oil change
Engine oil filter change
Engine air filter change
Timing belt change
Serpentine belt change
Transmission fluid change
Spark Plug replacement

 

[Daniel in SD]

On my current ICE vehicle for example I have to do all of the following routinely/on some regular basis, which don't exist on a Tesla, so I'm curious what "more" the 3 will need than this:

It sounds like you have a truck or real SUV. Most modern cars require very little maintenance.

Differential fluid change

Most modern cars have transaxles and do not have differential fluid. Interval in my Lexus GX is 90k.

Transfer case fluid change

Only 4WD trucks and SUVs (not CUVs!) have transfer cases. Interval in my Lexus GX is 90k.

Engine oil change

Usually 1 year/10k miles on modern engines.

Engine air filter change

Yep. 30k usually.

Timing belt change

Most engines have chains now and have no service interval. I do admit that BMWs and Audis are crap and require unscheduled timing chain replacements at 100k.

Transmission fluid change

Many cars have "lifetime" transmission these days. I still replaced it at 100k in my Lexus anyway.

Spark Plug replacement

Most cars come with iridium plugs that have a 120k service interval.

If Tesla's require so little service then why are the service centers full? Because I'm talking about unscheduled service.

I'm curious about this magic brake fluid the Prius uses that never absorbs water from the air like literally every other brake fluid ever made and thus never needs to be changed.

I'm not an automotive engineer but I imagine it's because the systems are better sealed on modern cars. It seems like there are a bunch of manufacturers that have no scheduled brake fluid changes. You're still supposed to inspect it and there are test strips to check the water content. I bet in dry climates it never has to be changed. https://www.cars.com/articles/how-often-do-i-need-to-change-my-brake-fluid-1420680336417/

 

[Knightshade]

It sounds like you have a truck or real SUV.

Yup... don't see much point in having two sedans after all.

Most modern cars require very little maintenance.

Generally far more than an EV though if it's an ICE vehicle. Which is what I originally was pointing out.

Most modern cars have transaxles and do not have differential fluid.

Well, "most" sure... Many cars that actually drive the correct pair of wheels (or all 4) still have differential fluid though, and there's a decent number of those still sold as new, modern, cars.

Usually 1 year/10k miles on modern engines.

Yep. 30k usually.

Most engines have chains now and have no service interval. I do admit that BMWs and Audis are crap and require unscheduled timing chain replacements at 100k.

Many cars have "lifetime" transmission these days. I still replaced it at 100k in my Lexus anyway.

Most cars come with iridium plugs that have a 120k service interval.

Right- so all things needing routine replacement that don't need replacement (or even exist) on a Tesla.

That was why your claim ICE vehicles require less made no sense. It's factually untrue.

If Tesla's require so little service then why are the service centers full? Because I'm talking about unscheduled service.

The post of mine you were replying to specifically had me citing "scheduled service"...which is vastly less in a Tesla than an ICE. That's what I actually said in the bit you quoted.


Now-There's multiple threads about how Tesla doesn't have nearly enough service centers for the # of cars that exist... this is for several reasons:

1) QC on the model 3, especially earlier ones, sucked. So they were flooded with crap like fixing panel gaps or doors not being lined up... but since all of this work is "free" it doesn't really figure into any discussion of scheduled service (or cost), and QC in general has improved significantly since then (though still has some distance to go for some folks it seems). I expect the improved QC and the lower US delivery #s the next quarter or two while they divert cars overseas will help them catch up somewhat on this.

2) Sheer #s. Tesla has well more than doubled cars on the road in the last 3 years, and added 0 service centers. So even the limited routine service they do call for is going to start getting backed up. Especially since at least some folks think they need to go to Tesla to have their tires rotated... (made worse by reports some SCs do it for free). This is where Tesla needs to get off their rears and build more SCs. (that and geography- there's still folks who don't live in the boonies but also don't have one within any reasonable drive)

3) Lack of CS elsewhere in Tesla. Some folks have reported going into SCs to ask them to address issues that should've been dealt with by sales or delivery some other arm of Tesla, not an SC (I've had to personally do this twice)... while this won't necessarily take up a work bay, it takes up time from the SC workers that could be spent on "real" SC issues. This is a failure on Teslas part but also has nothing to do with the car itself needing more service.

 

[Daniel in SD]

The post of mine you were replying to specifically had me citing "scheduled service"...which is vastly less in a Tesla than an ICE. That's what I actually said in the bit you quoted.

What matters to most people is how much service a car requires not how much scheduled service a car requires. Tesla doesn't list 12V battery replacement on their scheduled service yet they have to replaced twice as often as an ICE vehicle and they're more expensive.

Toyota sold about 10 million vehicles in the US over the last 4 years and has about 1200 dealers.
Tesla has sold about 400,000 vehicles total in the US and has 77 service centers.
There should be enough service centers since Teslas require so little service