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"The Model X will only be offered as all-wheel-drive" - Elon Musk

domenick

Nerd
Jan 2, 2008
621
59
Florida
Possible problem, as far as I know the higher capacity cells, 4ah, are volumetrically more dense but not gravimetrically, so that larger pack will add some weight, and hurt efficiency.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that doesn't quite make sense to me.

You're saying the 4 ah cell is smaller and heavier, but the cells are still 18650 format so the size doesn't change. I suspect there is a gravametric improvement. In the London video, Elon speaks to batteries becoming more energy dense gravametrically, saying that he sees a clear path, over the next 5 years to around 280 Wh/kg. It's common to here of gravametric improvements, but quite rare for anyone to mention watt-hours per liter.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,571
43,058
Central New York
I'm not saying they are smaller, I'm saying they are the same size, 18650, but hold 4ah, so the volumetric density improves, but the weight increases, so the gravimetric density does not improve. I also may be operating with outdated information, Elon might know of better advances to come.
 

Discoducky

P100DL, 2021 M3, 3 CT reservations and counting
Dec 25, 2011
3,418
3,245
Seattle
Just now hit me that with AWD (2 motors) the regen force could be pretty heavy. I'm sure TM will tune it appropriately, but after driving a Prius all week (rental) I can't wait for the regen of the S again and AWD super-regen of the X.
 

bareyb

Active Member
Sep 2, 2013
1,137
46
Silicon Valley, CA
So any rumors as to the price? I read on another forum that the cost will be about the same for the Model X as it is for the Model S. Not sure how true that is, but sounds like it's gonna be another $100k vehicle. Which isn't really a surprise. Especially with two motors.
 

Lloyd

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2011
6,257
2,048
San Luis Obispo, CA
Elon has stated that the cost of the model X will be 'slighly more than the model S'. I don't believe there is any infomaiton more current than that.
 

Dave EV

Active Member
Jun 23, 2009
1,666
1,048
San Diego
Just now hit me that with AWD (2 motors) the regen force could be pretty heavy. I'm sure TM will tune it appropriately, but after driving a Prius all week (rental) I can't wait for the regen of the S again and AWD super-regen of the X.
Yeah, you could regen at up to Supercharger rates (120kW) or more instead of "only" 60 kW.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,519
2,984
Yeah, you could regen at up to Supercharger rates (120kW) or more instead of "only" 60 kW.
Weird that I never correlated these two metrics as "comparable". For some reason, I always thought of them as mismatched like "feet" and "ounces".
 

domenick

Nerd
Jan 2, 2008
621
59
Florida
So any rumors as to the price? I read on another forum that the cost will be about the same for the Model X as it is for the Model S. Not sure how true that is, but sounds like it's gonna be another $100k vehicle. Which isn't really a surprise. Especially with two motors.

Elon quantified a slight increase by saying the price difference is a "low single digit percentage." So, if the base price of the S is $71,070, an additional 2% is $1,421, 3% is $2,132, 4% is 2,842 etc.
 

domenick

Nerd
Jan 2, 2008
621
59
Florida
Do we know if the X will be offered in a 60kWh version?

That was the claim during the initial reveal. I personally think it would be wiser to offer an 85 kWh and a 100 kWh version, though it would suck for those who need the lower price of the 60 kWh to get any Tesla SUV at all.

I think that, though the range hit might be small, it would be better to offer longer range than shorter. A 100 kWh version might sell even better than the S85. Especially if performance is improved.
 

aronth5

Long Time Follower
May 8, 2010
2,677
1,410
Boston Suburb
Do we know if the X will be offered in a 60kWh version?

We'll just have to see but I suspect if the 60kWh is offered it will be much less popular than the Model S 60kWh due the lower range.
Of course for now all we have is the Tesla web site which still shows both battery options but that is too old to be reliable. Just have to wait and see.
model x battery options.PNG
 

spleen

Active Member
Jul 7, 2012
1,160
88
Honolulu, HI
The 2WD has vanished from "drivetrain configurations" at TM.

And yet, in the text above that, it says "Model X is offered with optional Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive." (emphasis mine)

You'd think that for a high tech company, they could get website refreshes correct ... (grumble, grumble)
 

mikevbf

Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2012
1,855
4,331
vermont
Did you catch that duel motor comes at a "low single digit percentage" over the price of the S. I was always expecting the the Model X to cost more than the Model S and then the Dual motor to cost 5-10k even more over that. According to my calculations 4% of 71k starting price of the Model S is less than 3k. This is Great news! Now if they can keep the cost of options under control, I am all set.
 

vfx

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2006
14,790
40
CA CA
Thinking back to Elon's reasoning for canceling the 40kWh Model S he sounds like he just want's to make exceptional cars. That may mean once they master the tech of AWD that all Teslas will be AWD. Even the Model E. They have certainly found that customers like upgrading their cars and maybe 100s of thousands of Es will be maxed out cars in the 60,000 dollar range. Tesla might be able to say tha the low end one is a $39,000 car but look how awesome it is.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,300
7,395
Maine
Thinking back to Elon's reasoning for canceling the 40kWh Model S he sounds like he just want's to make exceptional cars. That may mean once they master the tech of AWD that all Teslas will be AWD. Even the Model E. They have certainly found that customers like upgrading their cars and maybe 100s of thousands of Es will be maxed out cars in the 60,000 dollar range. Tesla might be able to say tha the low end one is a $39,000 car but look how awesome it is.

Well, it would depend on the cost of differentiating., especially on cheaper models. But certainly, efficient 4WD would be another awesome win for BEV.
 

vfx

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2006
14,790
40
CA CA
Well, it would depend on the cost of differentiating., especially on cheaper models. But certainly, efficient 4WD would be another awesome win for BEV.

Yeah so it comes down to would an owner rather have leather, or pano roof, premium sound or AWD? And what if Tesla says AWD is mandatory? That's what I think may happen if the can get the price to the $2K range.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,571
43,058
Central New York
As long as I have the option to turn off the front motor for rear wheel power slides on the E :biggrin: However I don't expect AWD on the E because the cost difference can be more easily buried in the X. Considering "low single digit percentage" over the S price, which S? If you're starting at the "base" price of a performance + model and then adding 3-4% on top of that it's quite a bit different than if you're starting with a basic 85 and adding 3-4%.
 

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