Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

"The Model X will only be offered as all-wheel-drive" - Elon Musk

Yggdrasill

Active Member
Feb 29, 2012
4,107
7,107
Kongsberg, Norway
My guess it's more an issue of time, resources, and priorities. They need to deliver an AWD version, and that's the version the Model X is essentially being designed to be.
True. We should put this in the same box as getting rid of the 40 kWh Model S. Earlier, Tesla clearly felt the need to compete on price, but as there is no lack of demand, they can do what they want to get higher profits and really show off what electric cars can do.

Tesla does need to focus on price when it comes to the Gen III, though.
 

doug

Administrator / Head Moderator
Nov 28, 2006
16,898
1,017
SF Bay Area
Basically. Though, I'm thinking less about profits and demand and more about engineering focus. Tesla seems to do what I've come to call "just-in-time engineering". For example the 85 kWh US spec Model S was job one. Engineering decisions on other versions of the car (e.g., EU charging, 60kWh version, 40kWh version that never saw the light of day) seemed to come rather late in the game. My guess is the Model X was hardly even being worked on till recently.
 

NigelM

Recovering Member
Apr 3, 2011
13,386
555
Northern Virginia
^^^ This.

And the fact that it's good business: get your top of the line cars (with best margins?) out first and use the cash to finance the trickle down versions.
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
200
It may be more efficient, in that it gets more work out of each kWh, but the required energy to propel the Model X will be higher. This is due to two reasons:

- The Model X will have a larger aerodynamic area.
- The Model X will be heavier.

The most important reason is the first one. More interior space = increased energy consumption.

Neither of those are caused by having 2 motors though (ok maybe the extra motor adds a bit of weight, but the x is likely already heavier than the s).

Like Bonnie, I'm unaffected because I was all in for AWD, but sticker shock indeed...
 

Yggdrasill

Active Member
Feb 29, 2012
4,107
7,107
Kongsberg, Norway
Neither of those are caused by having 2 motors though (ok maybe the extra motor adds a bit of weight, but the x is likely already heavier than the s).

Like Bonnie, I'm unaffected because I was all in for AWD, but sticker shock indeed...
I think I wasn't quite awake when I wrote that post. I thought you were saying that the Model X would be more efficient than the Model S. Which is actually possible, but the Model X will still have less range due to being a larger vehicle. There would be little difference between an AWD Model X and an RWD Model X.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,318
7,398
Maine
There is going to be severe sticker shock when the price of the model x is finally announced.

Hmm.
(1) Extra motor, controller, cabling
(2) Falcon-wing doors
(3) Extra body and glass
(4) Additional suspension control?
(5) Extra front protection?

Total cost? How does it compare to the Model S P option?

I wouldn't be surprised to see it 4WD-only since:
- Most buyers would want 4WD anyway
- The additional cost of the front motor and drive might not be that significant as part of the whole cost.
- As someone noted, they have the option of using different reduction gearing to improve efficiency
- They can always change their minds later
 
What does he say right after the "dual motor AWD"??? Something that sounds like either "suspension" or "package" and "3 or 4" but I can't make it out--- and it seems to be further justification for why the price would be slightly higher.

I thought maybe he was saying something about only having air suspension? But the "3 or 4" doesn't make sense in that context. Anyone have better ears?
 

NigelM

Recovering Member
Apr 3, 2011
13,386
555
Northern Virginia
Like Bonnie, I'm unaffected because I was all in for AWD, but sticker shock indeed...

Ditto on the "all in" part but not so certain that there will be sticker shock. I know what my Sig Model S cost and prepared for that plus "slightly more" (quote from Elon) so unless we start speculating on what "slightly more" really means.....
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,521
2,989
What does he say right after the "dual motor AWD"??? Something that sounds like either "suspension" or "package" and "3 or 4" but I can't make it out--- and it seems to be further justification for why the price would be slightly higher.

I thought maybe he was saying something about only having air suspension? But the "3 or 4" doesn't make sense in that context. Anyone have better ears?
Best I can do (on hearing through the noise) is:
... will only be offered as AWD. So it will be dual motor AWD. Low single digits ... more expensive than the S ...
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
200
Ditto on the "all in" part but not so certain that there will be sticker shock. I know what my Sig Model S cost and prepared for that plus "slightly more" (quote from Elon) so unless we start speculating on what "slightly more" really means.....

Well, with the P+ stuff going around, unless they make that standard on a performance X, it's likely looking like 130k to get something like a Performance+ AWD X
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
200
I think he says:

"... will only be offered as AWD. So, it will be dual motor AWD. So, to be clear, low single digits percentage more expensive than the (the) S because the ... "

And he's talking about starting price.

So, if we say 6% is his definition of low single digits, then the starting price would be about 75k (current base S is 70k right?)
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
9,938
4,850
Basically. Though, I'm thinking less about profits and demand and more about engineering focus. Tesla seems to do what I've come to call "just-in-time engineering". For example the 85 kWh US spec Model S was job one. Engineering decisions on other versions of the car (e.g., EU charging, 60kWh version, 40kWh version that never saw the light of day) seemed to come rather late in the game. My guess is the Model X was hardly even being worked on till recently.
I think this is the side effect of Tesla controlling its R&D budget to keep investors happy (esp. with Elon's promise of quarterly profit without factoring ZEV credits).
 

SteveG3

Supporting Member
Sep 21, 2012
4,013
15,369
US
On pricing... I realize it's not huge dollars, but I think when X comes out S may have a refresh that lowers costs (Elon suggested 2-3 years for a refresh at Teslive). What if this X and an S refresh incorporate some of the 5-8% annual battery improvement Tesla talks about, and they pass a few thousand dollars in savings to the consumer. Of course, it might also result in same price, but, somewhat bigger batteries for the price.
 

Yggdrasill

Active Member
Feb 29, 2012
4,107
7,107
Kongsberg, Norway
On pricing... I realize it's not huge dollars, but I think when X comes out S may have a refresh that lowers costs (Elon suggested 2-3 years for a refresh at Teslive). What if this X and an S refresh incorporate some of the 5-8% annual battery improvement Tesla talks about, and they pass a few thousand dollars in savings to the consumer. Of course, it might also result in same price, but, somewhat bigger batteries for the price.
I think it would make sense for Tesla to reduce the cost of the Model S with the introduction of Model X. There should be a gap that's greater than a mere 5%, as you get a lot more car with a Model X. Maybe the Model S is reduced by $4k to $66k, and the Model X is introduced at $74k. An $8k difference would make sense, to me at least.
 

ElSupreme

Model S 03182
Jan 13, 2012
4,303
89
Atlanta, GA
Wow. Once again, you heard it here (TMC) first folks! One less option to choose, AWD is the reason I'm waiting for the X. So at least it won't cost "extra", but it sure will cost "more" ! :tongue:
ML

I'm thinking maybe the complexity of the AWD makes the 2 wheel & 4 wheel models so different that they have decided to just go w the more advanced option, at least to start. A lot of people in LA, Atlanta, etc. pay more for 4WD they don't "need"

Yeah people in Atlanta love their 4WD. I mean we have hills, and potholes, and mountains. But even in snow we don't venture out in our 4WD. And those who do leave their cars abandoned on the side of the road after they slide off.

Clearly not the only reason but I believe Tesla has determined that without taking advantage of AWD they cannot get enough range out of the larger and heavier Model X. Elon is dead set on a minimum 200 mile range and I don't think the 60 with rear wheel drive can achieve that without leveraging different gear ratios (I know that is the wrong terminology but you get my point).

Even leveraging two gear ratios you aren't going to coax much efficiency out of the drive setup. So no real increased range. You could improve the speed range, or acceleration range. You could perhaps induce higher regen braking force. But your efficiency gairs will be very small, to where they won't really be noticeable.

As you might recall, there was "severe sticker shock" when the price of Model S was announced.

I saw severe sticker shock in that it was lower than I expected. Granted the Sig people had some real sticker shock I admit.
But the Model X is going to definitely come with some sticker shock, no doubt.
 

vfx

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2006
14,790
40
CA CA
This comes as no surprise and does not mean much in the overall scheme re pricing. I will be looking for the Model E AWD before buying that dream car.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top