The Unofficial Aftermarket Air Suspension Thread

[TwoK4drSi]

did you ever find anything about these? Im thinking of going with them since they are local to me..

Also whats the biggest tank that fit in the subtrunk of a model 3? Im guessing a 2.5 gallon.

4 gallon UAS tank

 

[LightSaber]

Since a few weeks I've switched to bags as well, happy to join this thread. Used to have a unique setup before with Mountain Pass Performance coilovers and air cups to be able to lift the car for speed bumps, ramps and such. But that setup had some drawbacks so I made the switch to air bags. Still on the same MPP coilover dampers though so this is again a pretty unique setup. Also combined with the whole lineup of suspension parts of MPP, even the rear spring arms. Which is a first as far as I'm aware. Of course this needs custom bags and bag adapters, with the help of Kean Suspension in Belgium I was able to get this done. They supplied me the parts and I did the install myself. Ended up using the AccuAir E-Level+ management.

Have to say, very happy I went this route. Ride quality is much better, even though I still have to play around with the damper settings a bit. And of course it's great to be able to drop the car all the way and all the benefits of being able to lift.

Would you mind sharing how you managed to get the air bag to fit the MPP Rear Spring Arm?

I'm getting the MasoAir OnAir for the subtrunk and it seems their design is similar to AirLift Performance where the rear top mount is ~72mm while the bottom is ~96mm (Tesla's spring specification). The only way I can see the fitment working is by using a 70mm to 96mm perch for the air bag with mindfulness of tuning the height since the socket on MPP's rear spring arms is deeper than the air bags. This route however seemed risky to me because the shroud around where the spring would normally sit is thin and unlikely to support the wider width of the perch. Furthermore by adding an extra mechanism the liftoff distance will be higher than intended which with a preset air suspension system like the OnAir. Other 'pressure controlled' setups like AirLift Performance 3H/3P on the other hand may be adjusted to factor in the added lift.

I am seeking a similar setup to yours using aluminum control arms front and back with rubber bushings instead of polyurethane for added comfort and wanted to implement the spring arms to further reduce unsprung weight for even better ride quality and performance. My main goal is to have comfort, range, and performance in that order.

2021 Tesla Model Performance
Eibach ANTI-ROLL-KIT Front and Rear Sway Bars
Koni Special Active w/ 2022 Long Range OEM Springs
MaXpeedingRods Front and Rear Aluminum Control Arms and End Links
Tesla 18" Aero V2 Wheels w/ Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus Elect (235/45R18)

 

[Firehuntah]

Would you mind sharing how you managed to get the air bag to fit the MPP Rear Spring Arm?

I'm getting the MasoAir OnAir for the subtrunk and it seems their design is similar to AirLift Performance where the rear top mount is ~72mm while the bottom is ~96mm (Tesla's spring specification). The only way I can see the fitment working is by using a 70mm to 96mm perch for the air bag with mindfulness of tuning the height since the socket on MPP's rear spring arms is deeper than the air bags. This route however seemed risky to me because the shroud around where the spring would normally sit is thin and unlikely to support the wider width of the perch. Furthermore by adding an extra mechanism the liftoff distance will be higher than intended which with a preset air suspension system like the OnAir. Other 'pressure controlled' setups like AirLift Performance 3H/3P on the other hand may be adjusted to factor in the added lift.

I am seeking a similar setup to yours using aluminum control arms front and back with rubber bushings instead of polyurethane for added comfort and wanted to implement the spring arms to further reduce unsprung weight for even better ride quality and performance. My main goal is to have comfort, range, and performance in that order.

2021 Tesla Model Performance
Eibach ANTI-ROLL-KIT Front and Rear Sway Bars
Koni Special Active w/ 2022 Long Range OEM Springs
MaXpeedingRods Front and Rear Aluminum Control Arms and End Links
Tesla 18" Aero V2 Wheels w/ Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus Elect (235/45R18)

Sure, it's basically just an adapter that sits underneath the bag and is bolted to it. It fits right into the MPP rear spring arm, unlike with the OEM spring arms you won't actually have to bolt the bottom of the bags to the spring arms as there's no way for them to come out anyway. I took some measurements before installing, it's handwritten and in mm though. For the inner diameter I did have to shave it off a bit more to get it to fit properly. So I'd say about 71mm is more correct instead of the 70,6mm.

I'm sure the Maso OnAir setup is pretty great when used as they designed it. But I don't know if it's still any good with a setup that's even slightly different, like in combination with these MPP spring arms and different height due to the necessary adapter. With Air Lift Performance management you indeed won't have this issue as you can set up everything just the way you like it to be. I used to have AccuAir management, but switched to Air Lift Performance recently. I honestly wouldn't want to have any other management for my airride anymore, really happy with it.

 

[LightSaber]

It looks like the adapter could add weight and end up being heavier than the OEM spring arms. Did you ever weigh the two?
I ask because MPP's goal for these ams was to fit smaller and lighter linear springs to reduce unsprung weight.

I was hoping there would be a lighter adapter that sat similarly to where the stocks were so I could gain from this weight reduction but it seems retrofitting it to achieve both criterias is a too farteched. I'd like to pay my thanks because you are the only other person I've found that managed to do this properly. Now I can get the OnAir setup and be happy enough with the stock arms.

 

[Firehuntah]

It looks like the adapter could add weight and end up being heavier than the OEM spring arms. Did you ever weigh the two?
I ask because MPP's goal for these ams was to fit smaller and lighter linear springs to reduce unsprung weight.

I was hoping there would be a lighter adapter that sat similarly to where the stocks were so I could gain from this weight reduction but it seems retrofitting it to achieve both criterias is a too farteched. I'd like to pay my thanks because you are the only other person I've found that managed to do this properly. Now I can get the OnAir setup and be happy enough with the stock arms.

Everything you add to the setup will of course add weight, no way around that. In all honesty if weight savings is that important to you, you shouldn't go with air suspension. The frunk setup alone will already add at least 10 kg (22 lb). The OnAir struts will most likely also be a bit heavier than a good set of coilovers would be.

But there's no way the bag adapter in combination with the MPP rear spring arm is heavier than the OEM rear spring arm. The OEM ones really are much heavier. The adapter I have also isn't made from metal but it's a hard plastic material. Most likely they used POM for it but I'm not 100% sure. But it weighs a lot less than steel/aluminium. According to MPP there's a 12 lb difference between OEM and their rear spring arms. The 2 bag adapters definitely don't weigh that much.

Like I said though, if you're set on going with that full OnAir setup, I do think staying with the OEM rear spring arms will work better. Though if the setup uses height sensors, it is possible to modify it for the rear to compensate for that extra height you add below the bag. But in that case the rear bag pressure will be lower as well at same ride height since I don't think there's any height adjustment (perch) for the bag itself with the OnAir bags.

 

[LightSaber]

Everything you add to the setup will of course add weight, no way around that. In all honesty if weight savings is that important to you, you shouldn't go with air suspension. The frunk setup alone will already add at least 10 kg (22 lb). The OnAir struts will most likely also be a bit heavier than a good set of coilovers would be.

But there's no way the bag adapter in combination with the MPP rear spring arm is heavier than the OEM rear spring arm. The OEM ones really are much heavier. The adapter I have also isn't made from metal but it's a hard plastic material. Most likely they used POM for it but I'm not 100% sure. But it weighs a lot less than steel/aluminium. According to MPP there's a 12 lb difference between OEM and their rear spring arms. The 2 bag adapters definitely don't weigh that much.

Like I said though, if you're set on going with that full OnAir setup, I do think staying with the OEM rear spring arms will work better. Though if the setup uses height sensors, it is possible to modify it for the rear to compensate for that extra height you add below the bag. But in that case the rear bag pressure will be lower as well at same ride height since I don't think there's any height adjustment (perch) for the bag itself with the OnAir bags.

I'm grateful for the details. When I was addressing weight concerns I mean in terms of unsprung weight. The extra weight from the air suspension kit doesn't bother me since the car already weighs a ton, but apparently suspension wise the OnAir kit is said to be lighter than many coilover setups, so who's to know. If I go this route I'll weigh it to my Koni + Stock Springs and see whether Tein Flex Z or MPP Comfort Coilovers weight specs are accurate.

To be honest there are a few things that makes deciding on these two setups difficult for me.

With the OnAir it comes with a quieter single pump that is German made alongside a 4 GAL air tank. The whole unit is already pre-attached and properly sized to be thrown into the sub-trunk with velcro mounts so it doesn't require drilling or mounting brackets. So for people like myself who like to drive a little more brainless, it's nice to have a system that doesn't take any storage real estate and only have to do the required minimum like adjusting the height conditionally or bleeding the system of moisture via water trap periodically.

It also has a built-in system that can be set to Low, OnAir (Medium/Automatic), High, and All Down.

Low - Freeway (30mm below stock ride height)
OnAir - Street / Freeway (10mm below stock ride height)
High - Large Bump / Dipped Driveway (30mm above stock ride height)
All Down - Aesthetic / Car Show / Parking (whatever ass to grass is)

When set to OnAir setting the car will ride at Medium height. Once the speed sensors detect that the car is going over 65 MPH the system automatically switches to Low ride height which decreases drag for improves range. When the speed decreases below 37 MPH it raises the car back to Medium ride height for comfort. Like with AirLift, each has their on internal controller to adjust on the fly however I prefer the tucked away center console approach.

Now I am in no way bashing products but mainly stating my preferences alone in a comparison frenzy to help other people with their decision making.

Despite liking the OnAir kit overall, due to recently finding out that their OnAir setting (Smart Speed Variation) is being discontinued (they are working on something GPS-based instead) which was one of my main convictions for getting the kit. I now see it more favorable to getting the AirLift/Adapter/MPP Spring Arms to gain from the weight reduction and full adjustability so that I can feel more in control with my car.

Now from the looks of it there are multiple pressure values for the AirLift bags which individualizes each of the bags from front to back. Given the adapters are 45mm tall and the lower part of the rear airbag is already 10-20mm tall, as it is inserted into the adapter to be held does this mean the overall height increase is only around 30-35mm? (45mm - lower airbag height). Is it possible to compensate the difference to where it will match the height with the front bags without affecting ride quality or handling?

To be more specific let's say the bottom of the MPP's Spring Arm is exactly the same height placement as the OEM Spring Arms and inserting an AirLift Rear Air Bag with Adapter raises the rear of the vehicle by 35mm. To combat this raise pressure has to be removed from the rear bags to lower the vehicle which means the rear now is softer than the front and no longer working as originally intended is it not? If that's the given I might have to go with the heavier setup using the OEM Spring Arm + OnAir for a more balanced ride unless the height adjustment didn't affect the balance significantly..

 

[Firehuntah]

I'm grateful for the details. When I was addressing weight concerns I mean in terms of unsprung weight. The extra weight from the air suspension kit doesn't bother me since the car already weighs a ton, but apparently suspension wise the OnAir kit is said to be lighter than many coilover setups, so who's to know. If I go this route I'll weigh it to my Koni + Stock Springs and see whether Tein Flex Z or MPP Comfort Coilovers weight specs are accurate.

To be honest there are a few things that makes deciding on these two setups difficult for me.

With the OnAir it comes with a quieter single pump that is German made alongside a 4 GAL air tank. The whole unit is already pre-attached and properly sized to be thrown into the sub-trunk with velcro mounts so it doesn't require drilling or mounting brackets. So for people like myself who like to drive a little more brainless, it's nice to have a system that doesn't take any storage real estate and only have to do the required minimum like adjusting the height conditionally or bleeding the system of moisture via water trap periodically.

It also has a built-in system that can be set to Low, OnAir (Medium/Automatic), High, and All Down.

Low - Freeway (30mm below stock ride height)
OnAir - Street / Freeway (10mm below stock ride height)
High - Large Bump / Dipped Driveway (30mm above stock ride height)
All Down - Aesthetic / Car Show / Parking (whatever ass to grass is)

When set to OnAir setting the car will ride at Medium height. Once the speed sensors detect that the car is going over 65 MPH the system automatically switches to Low ride height which decreases drag for improves range. When the speed decreases below 37 MPH it raises the car back to Medium ride height for comfort. Like with AirLift, each has their on internal controller to adjust on the fly however I prefer the tucked away center console approach.

View attachment 1007432View attachment 1007433

Now I am in no way bashing products but mainly stating my preferences alone in a comparison frenzy to help other people with their decision making.

Despite liking the OnAir kit overall, due to recently finding out that their OnAir setting (Smart Speed Variation) is being discontinued (they are working on something GPS-based instead) which was one of my main convictions for getting the kit. I now see it more favorable to getting the AirLift/Adapter/MPP Spring Arms to gain from the weight reduction and full adjustability so that I can feel more in control with my car.

Now from the looks of it there are multiple pressure values for the AirLift bags which individualizes each of the bags from front to back. Given the adapters are 45mm tall and the lower part of the rear airbag is already 10-20mm tall, as it is inserted into the adapter to be held does this mean the overall height increase is only around 30-35mm? (45mm - lower airbag height). Is it possible to compensate the difference to where it will match the height with the front bags without affecting ride quality or handling?

To be more specific let's say the bottom of the MPP's Spring Arm is exactly the same height placement as the OEM Spring Arms and inserting an AirLift Rear Air Bag with Adapter raises the rear of the vehicle by 35mm. To combat this raise pressure has to be removed from the rear bags to lower the vehicle which means the rear now is softer than the front and no longer working as originally intended is it not? If that's the given I might have to go with the heavier setup using the OEM Spring Arm + OnAir for a more balanced ride unless the height adjustment didn't affect the balance significantly..

I definitely understand why you'd really like to go with their setup, it's really nice and very clean looking. And from what they're saying it also offers the best comfort. I've indeed read about them dropping the smart speed variation feature which is a bit of a shame. Makes that setup a lot more basic with no real features besides just the 3 height settings. While the Air Lift Performance setup might look a bit less clean with the controller, it does offer a lot more info about your bags and the tank pressure. And a lot more options + full adjustability. Just take what you prefer, I don't really think there's a wrong way to go.

As for the bag adapter for the MPP rear spring arms. If the bags you want already have like 10-20mm below them, then you indeed don't need an extra 45mm, but only 25-35mm. You basically just want the bag to clear the spring arm, that's all. Other than that you want the adapter to be as small as possible. Only way for this adapter to not have an effect on the pressure that will be needed for the same ride height is if there's an adjustment perch on top of the bag. But I don't think I've seen any bags on the rear of a Model 3 that offer this. On my car the bag pressure is only slightly higher on the rear, it's very close to even pressure on both front/rear. While normally you'd want higher pressure on the rear than front I feel it doesn't affect handling too much. But you definitely shouldn't have less pressure in the rear compared to front.

Not really sure if the bottom of the MPP spring arm is the same height as where the spring would mount on an OEM spring arm. You could ask MPP about that, or maybe they can chime in here. @MountainPass

 

[LightSaber]

I definitely understand why you'd really like to go with their setup, it's really nice and very clean looking. And from what they're saying it also offers the best comfort. I've indeed read about them dropping the smart speed variation feature which is a bit of a shame. Makes that setup a lot more basic with no real features besides just the 3 height settings. While the Air Lift Performance setup might look a bit less clean with the controller, it does offer a lot more info about your bags and the tank pressure. And a lot more options + full adjustability. Just take what you prefer, I don't really think there's a wrong way to go.

As for the bag adapter for the MPP rear spring arms. If the bags you want already have like 10-20mm below them, then you indeed don't need an extra 45mm, but only 25-35mm. You basically just want the bag to clear the spring arm, that's all. Other than that you want the adapter to be as small as possible. Only way for this adapter to not have an effect on the pressure that will be needed for the same ride height is if there's an adjustment perch on top of the bag. But I don't think I've seen any bags on the rear of a Model 3 that offer this. On my car the bag pressure is only slightly higher on the rear, it's very close to even pressure on both front/rear. While normally you'd want higher pressure on the rear than front I feel it doesn't affect handling too much. But you definitely shouldn't have less pressure in the rear compared to front.

Not really sure if the bottom of the MPP spring arm is the same height as where the spring would mount on an OEM spring arm. You could ask MPP about that, or maybe they can chime in here. @MountainPass

I agree! It's hard to go wrong with either of them.
One is made for pure comfort while the other is for performance/comfort.

After careful consideration I've decided to go with OnAir + MPP Spring Arm + Retrofit Adapter for the sake of comfort. I will be visiting Las Vegas next month to buy the OnAir Kit to be initially used with the OEM spring arms.

Once in hand I'll take measurements of the rear bags to see what the lower dimensions are so an adapter can be made.
From the looks of it the OnAir's lower mount is not as lengthy as AirLift's.

The Airlift has a larger cylindrical extrusion that could be slotted into a shroud to be held in place versus the Onair seems like something as to to go into it and not around it. The OnAir comes with front and rear height sensors so it should compensate by adjusting the PSI accordingly however I will email them just in case to confirm.

Did you ever record the PSI difference between OEM spring arm vs MPP spring arm?
Or the PSI difference between the rear and the front? Without MPP are they suppose to be the same?

I'll have to reach out to @MountainPass to see if the bottom of the rear spring arm socket is at the same height as the OEM.

Lastly, Is it possible for me to get the contact of the person or company that made your adapter?
I noticed the OnAir also has a lower bolt to be held in place so I believe an adapter that is inserted and bolted in is possible.

 

[Firehuntah]

I agree! It's hard to go wrong with either of them.
One is made for pure comfort while the other is for performance/comfort.

After careful consideration I've decided to go with OnAir + MPP Spring Arm + Retrofit Adapter for the sake of comfort. I will be visiting Las Vegas next month to buy the OnAir Kit to be initially used with the OEM spring arms.

Once in hand I'll take measurements of the rear bags to see what the lower dimensions are so an adapter can be made.
From the looks of it the OnAir's lower mount is not as lengthy as AirLift's.

View attachment 1010590View attachment 1010589

The Airlift has a larger cylindrical extrusion that could be slotted into a shroud to be held in place versus the Onair seems like something as to to go into it and not around it. The OnAir comes with front and rear height sensors so it should compensate by adjusting the PSI accordingly however I will email them just in case to confirm.

Did you ever record the PSI difference between OEM spring arm vs MPP spring arm?
Or the PSI difference between the rear and the front? Without MPP are they suppose to be the same?

I'll have to reach out to @MountainPass to see if the bottom of the rear spring arm socket is at the same height as the OEM.

Lastly, Is it possible for me to get the contact of the person or company that made your adapter?
I noticed the OnAir also has a lower bolt to be held in place so I believe an adapter that is inserted and bolted in is possible.

Looking at these 2 side by side it looks like it can't even be done with the Air Lift bags since the air fitting is on the bottom, or the bottom adapter would have to become even taller. With the OnAir one it should be possible for sure. But yes, it'll try to compensate the height and lower the pressure in the bag. With the size of the adapter that's needed it might be a 15-30 psi difference, but I'm not sure. I haven't tried with the OEM spring arm, my MPP spring arms were already in place when I switched to air suspension. So I have no comparison.

My adapter was made by Kean Suspensions in Belgium, not sure if that's any help since it's not exactly close to you.