Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

The world after the Model 3

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
One more time: A $20k EV with 350 mile range that refuels in <10 minutes...that's the event horizon. That is the Model T/assembly line. Until then, vehicles like the 3 or Y or whatever are just important next steps leading up to that moment.
No. Because people who have perhaps $20,000 in cash on hand for a purchase are most likely considering saving a bit of dough on a Used Car that might end up costing them only $18,000 OTD. By the time a 350 mile range electric vehicle could be offered by anyone for only $20,000 as a new car purchase the base price of an Accord or Camry will likely be around $40,000 and the Civic and Corolla will start at close to $30,000. The Model T got at best 21 MPG and had a 10 gallon capacity. So you could hope for a 158 to 210 mile range before it stopped running, 350 miles range would have been a pipe dream. Do not mistake a Model T for a Corolla in fuel efficiency, nor a BMW 3-Series for a Tesla Model ☰.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Garlan Garner
This is a good bit of insight as to what things will be like... SOON.


I just watched this presentation. I recommend that anyone who believes that EV's are not the future needs to watch the video and then get back to us.

The disruption aspect is really the most amazing part of it. The presenter shows the trends for: PV cost of electricity over time, battery storage increase over time, semiconductor density over time, and then things like the Model S has 18 moving parts (seems hard to believe) versus an ICE's 2000.

alseTrick's thought that "A $20k EV with 350 mile range that refuels in <10 minutes...that's the event horizon. That is the Model T/assembly line. Until then, vehicles like the 3 or Y or whatever are just important next steps leading up to that moment."

While few would question that Tesla actually producing 500,000 Model 3's per year would be a very important step (to use alseTricks's words), it misses the OP's original question I believe. The OP's original question was: "Do you think that the world will be different after the Model 3 is released or it won't be much different?".

I believe there are two answers to that question:

Answer #1: The first answer is that if Tesla produces 200,000+ Model 3's in 2018, the world will not be much different. EV sales that year in the U.S. might total 400,000 or so, out of 17,000,000 sales, so only about 2.5%. In that sense, the world will not be much different, because 97% of the cars being sold are still ICE's.

Answer #2: The second answer is that if Tesla produces 200,000+ Model 3's in 2018, the world will most definitely be much different. What is going to be different is that because of the S curve of technology adoption, it will be absolutely certain, beyond the shadow of a doubt that exists today, that mass market EV's are going to completely displace ICE vehicles within a very short time. Very short. The presenter in the video states that all vehicles produced in 2025 will be electric vehicles. It's all about understanding that the S curve is going to kick in.

In the Tesla investing world, and other disrupting technologies (Netflix, Amazon, etc.), there is a similar analogy to grasping the idea. Back when 1mbps DSL lines were the best game in town, Amazon introduces streaming video in addition to mailed DVD's. General consensus was that it was crazy, since the network could never handle the bandwidth needed to stream video to everyone at an acceptable quality. AMZN stock is up 10x since 2009.

Back in 2012 when the Model S debuted, Fiskar had just stopped production due to A123 bankruptcy, and the Volt was outselling the Leaf by 3-1. General consensus was that Tesla was crazy to think that an EV that cost 2x-3x as much as the Leaf would sell anywhere near what Tesla was projecting. This was even after Car and Driver named the Model S the car of the year. Elon was the only one building cars who actually understood that if you build a compelling enough EV, you can demand a premium price, and make money selling it. He even told everyone in advance that that was exactly what he was planning on doing. Anyone who saw that the S curve was coming made a nice 10x on their TSLA bet over 4 years.

It's all about seeing where things are going to go, and how fast we are going to get there. If your investing plan is to wait until it's absolutely clear that something is going to happen, you are never going to reap the benefits of those who jumped on the S curve right when it started happening.

The Sage linked video shows a New York street in 1900. There are 100 horses and 1 car. The same street in 1913 had 100 cars and 1 horse. Thats whats going to happen.

RT
 
@Jayc, that was PAINFUL to watch. Did you have to sit through that guy or just watched on Youtube ? Poor guy, as relevant as it may be , maybe he should make a sequel without the cell phone and with some better graphics and maybe do a TED talk or something. Genius is seldom understood but that guy makes it even more challenging. Reminded me of driver's ed class you have to take after you get caught speeding in your Tesla :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: JeffK
I just watched this presentation. I recommend that anyone who believes that EV's are not the future needs to watch the video and then get back to us.
Consider the outcome of the recent US presidential election... just keep that in mind when making these kinds of statements haha.

Playing devils advocate for a moment, the major problem with the presentation is that one of the primary arguments is long term TCO and he takes about an hour to show it.

Many people in today's world want instant gratification and want what they can see vs perceived long term value. This is precisely the reason Tesla focuses on other aspects of the vehicle besides it being electric. These are features potential owners can see and experience right now. Nearly all the features besides the drivetrain, an ICE manufacturer can do to an ICE if they were willing and had the engineering expertise. Hybrids are getting great fuel economy numbers and are competitive with pure EVs at price/mile. The price difference alone in EVs vs a hybrid considering total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle the hybrid still wins out over a pure EV. That said, the initial price of the hybrid was lower than the EV and they are different classes of cars.

The best bet and the easiest way for EV mass adoption is for there to be a competitive, desirable, EV at all price points and all classes of vehicles. The EV should be able to stand on it's own to be more desireable than it's ICE competitors regardless of manufacture and long term TCO. Of course EV's will have to prove themselves build quality and reliability wise (the Tesla Model X didn't help the public opinion in this aspect). Tesla is trying to do this with the Model 3. Elon mentioned it will be the best car you can buy for that price... (not just best EV but "best car")

While I agree that EVs are the future, they need to have some kick ass features for the general public to bite. Unfortunately, we'll slowly see those features trickling to ICEs in the not too distant future as well. It's going to be an innovation race which is great for everyone.
 
Having just returned from the annual Christmas round trip from MA to VA and back....

all I can say is "GOD, I HOPE SO!!!"

What I'd really love to see is cars talking to each other....for instance.....

If you're on a 600-mile trip, your car will be given "express priority" in the left-hand lane, over someone driving in the left lane 10 mph under the speed limit......

It will be great to sit back and let the car drive. The car would hopefully be able to look at a comprehensive, real-time view of your trip, and ask you what to prioritize....."Should we drive the shortest distance, regardless of traffic obstructions? Or should we go 25 miles out of the way to avoid an hour's worth of backups?"

I can only hope the Model 3 will start us moving in that direction technology-wise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Sage
What I'd really love to see is cars talking to each other....for instance.....

If you're on a 600-mile trip, your car will be given "express priority" in the left-hand lane, over someone driving in the left lane 10 mph under the speed limit......

The only problem with that is that the person driving 10 mph under the speed limit in the left lane is probably doing their own driving and not letting the car do anything so they won't be getting out of your way anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Sage
It will be great to sit back and let the car drive. The car would hopefully be able to look at a comprehensive, real-time view of your trip, and ask you what to prioritize....."Should we drive the shortest distance, regardless of traffic obstructions? Or should we go 25 miles out of the way to avoid an hour's worth of backups?"
Isn't this already how we do things? Except, the car doesn't make the decision, you do.. and it sounds like you still make that decision in your scenario. How is this different than Waze?
 
Isn't this already how we do things? Except, the car doesn't make the decision, you do.. and it sounds like you still make that decision in your scenario. How is this different than Waze?


but you would tell the car before the trip even begins and wouldn't have to interact with it again, it would make the decisions the rest of the trip.

remember, the Model 3 would be doing the actual driving, that's what makes it different than Waze.
 
but you would tell the car before the trip even begins and wouldn't have to interact with it again, it would make the decisions the rest of the trip.

remember, the Model 3 would be doing the actual driving, that's what makes it different than Waze.
Yes, but I plug in my destination to Waze and just follow it (manually, sad face). It updates as it discovers traffic and reroutes accordingly. The only difference in your case is that the car is now following the same GPS, which is what I would expect to happen if it's self driving.
 
Yes, but I plug in my destination to Waze and just follow it (manually, sad face). It updates as it discovers traffic and reroutes accordingly. The only difference in your case is that the car is now following the same GPS, which is what I would expect to happen if it's self driving.
seeing as Waze and Tesla both share map data w/Google, I imagine the traffic routing algorithms will be similar, with one caveat.....your Tesla will know your current state of charge, range, and charging stations along your route.

Waze may be able to tell you where gas stations are right now, but it can't tell you that you have 20 miles left before Empty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Sage and dsvick
seeing as Waze and Tesla both share map data w/Google, I imagine the traffic routing algorithms will be similar, with one caveat.....your Tesla will know your current state of charge, range, and charging stations along your route.

Waze may be able to tell you where gas stations are right now, but it can't tell you that you have 20 miles left before Empty.
So it's just more integrated since the car will be doing both the driving and the GPSing. But honestly, I think that's to be expected! I would be shocked if I was continually polled for input and decisions in a self-driving car.
 
The world after the Model 3?

All I can say is that the Model 3 doesn't have a chance of changing things as much as those who are in power in the Auto Maker world and US political positions.

For example.... a change in the EVcredit system ( extended or shortened ) would change the EV market more than the M3 could. Lawmakers control that.