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Thermal Camera Video showing the tire ware and tire heat build up.

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by islandbayy, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    #1 islandbayy, Dec 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016


    19's. Fresh alignment as of ~2 1/2 weeks ago. Really shows how the negative camber is affecting the rears, and see how nice and even the fronts are!
     
  2. rdrcrmatt

    rdrcrmatt Member

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    Was this new tires _and_ fresh alignment? (have sound off while at work)

    I have a FLIROne, I'll do this in the next few days too. I have 19's with Pirelli P7's (not great tires, good wear, poor dry traction, makes sliding fun) with a fresh alignment when I put them on
     
  3. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Fresh Alignment, tires have 15,000 on them.
     
  4. CalDreamin

    CalDreamin Member

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    Very interesting. Is more heat on the inner rears expected given the negative camber? I'm not sure this necessarily indicates you'd have an excessive wear problem.

    As I understand it, the Model S that have had poor rear tire life experienced excessive inner shoulder wear. From the looks of the tires with excessive rear wear, not much of the inner tread experienced the wear since it involved such a narrow part of the tire.

    Since your tires have 15K miles on them, are you seeing inside rear shoulder wear?

    Incidentally, I also have a FLIR One, and have found it extremely useful to locate specific areas where my home's walls and attic have poor insulation, as well as devices that were drawing excessive electrical power even when shut off. While not as capable as higher-end thermal imaging cameras, it's a lot cheaper. I'll check my Model S tires also.
     
  5. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Yes, I've always had excessive inner wear on the inner tread. On my first set of tires, the outsides had a good 50% tread left, it was the insides. Although, my allignment from factory delivery was so bad, and didnt catch it for the first 2000 miles, I lot a lot of tread life in that span. I am now meticulous about rotating my tires. I rotate every 6,000 on the dot, as the installer of my current set provides free balancing and rotation every 6,000 so all I need to do is drive in, and 15 minutes later done and gone. I will admit, I neglected that a bit during the winter on my first set. I expect to get 40k out of this set where as I barely got 30k out of my first. I consider 40k still very bad. Every car I've ever owned I've only had to replace tires due to dry rot, even with my excessive driving, then lack of tread. My Nissan cube went 80,000 miles on $45 tires..... Granted, weighted less, but still, such cheap tires, but thats a whole nother story. I feel bad for those with 21's.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And what is this, The FlirONE convention? Jeez, never even knew the thing existed 3 weeks ago, now that I have one, it seems so does every one else!
     
  6. KevinMS

    KevinMS Member

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    Interesting idea using a thermal camera to check for heat buildup in the tires. It motivated me to grab my infrared thermometer after a 20 mile drive to measure the temperature across the tread. The rears were the hottest at the inside rib and coolest to the outside, similar to the video, with a difference of only 5 deg. F (the camber on my car has been adjusted...). The front tires were hottest in the center by ~3 deg. F. Quantifying the temperature of the tires has stepped this up to the next level of nerdiness!
     
  7. docgarner

    docgarner Member

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    How'd you adjust your camber, Kevin?
     
  8. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #8 linkster, Jan 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
    island

    Thanks for posting. I find your vid quite interesting as I have spent so much (too much) time/effort "babysitting", reading ALL the various tire wear posts, "reading" the tires themselves, tweaking, and experimenting to achieve even wear across the tread and an acceptable life span on our 21's.
     
  9. KevinMS

    KevinMS Member

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    #9 KevinMS, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    @docgarner, my early vin MS had out of spec camber and there was no OEM solution. So, I installed adjustable camber links a few weeks ago. Too soon for tire wear results and too cold for W*hr/mile impact, but I'm overall satisfied with them. See Installed adjustable rear camber links to reduce rear tire wear.
     
  10. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    I just checked my rear tires on my P85D after a 150 mile drive at high speeds at a supercharger, and once again after 150 miles of high speeds once I arrived at home.

    The heat on my tires is uniform except for the siping which is hotter, the inner side and outer side are the same temperature.

    Not sure if there was an improvement to the P85D alignment or if this shows a bad alignment on your car -- but it doesn't look like an issue for me.

    I used a Flir E8
     
  11. mackgoo

    mackgoo Member

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    Just out of curiosity can you do the same thing with another manufacturer?
     
  12. linkster

    linkster Member

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    Curious if your fabulous P85D has different alignment specs from the RWD S?
     
  13. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    How can I find out?
     
  14. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #14 linkster, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    You can find it in your manual on the touchscreen.

    do you need the steps to get to it?

    if you need help, I will have to change out of my Winnie-The-Poo pj's (so the neighbors won't see) and go down to the car unless someone knows off the top of their head or is currently in their car.
     
  15. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    I skimmed through the manual from the car's screen just now, and while I could find weight loading specifications, and specifications on the rims and tires ... I could not find any alignment specs.

    The section on Traction Control clearly talks about the settings as they would apply for a non-P85D since there is no way to turn off traction control in the P85D, so I'm not sure if any changes would actually be noted there yet anyway.
     
  16. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #16 linkster, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    Changing now....:biggrin:

    go to "specifications"
    go to "wheels and tires"

    P85 RWD
     

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  17. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    So I got my thermal camera as well and I saw the same heat pattern on my rear tires. At first I jumped to the conclusion that my tires might be misaligned. But then I took the camera closer and saw that the inner edge that was warmer was actually the area where the tire doesn't even touch the road. So I think it can't be a misaligned tire. If there was more weight on one side of the tire it would create more friction and thus heat. But that edge isn't even touching the road the heat must be coming from something else. I believe the inside of the rear wheels and tires are a result of the motor and inverter that is sitting right between the real wheels. Part of the heat they create radiates to the inside of the rear wheels. I guess only lifting the car up and looking under the entire car with a thermal camera would show it better. Anyways, I doubt the warmer inner edge of the rear tires is a result of misalignment.
    If you look close on the attached image you see the warmer part is the rounded edge that isn't touching the road.

    img_thermal1648250274.jpg
     
  18. bxr140

    bxr140 Member

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    A significant amount of heat comes from the carcass flexing. Thats what's happening in this case--the inner edge of the tire flexes the most becuase of camber.

    Simple rolling doesn't create much heat from friction. Scrubbing from the toe does a little bit, but friction heat comes mostly from cornering, acceleration, and braking,
     
  19. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    I understand that. I'm still not sure that looking at the temperature difference alone is enough to conclude it must be misalignment. Many things can contribute to warming up the inside of the rear tire. It could be warm air from the front radiators that goes under the car. The wheels is cooled from the open side, but gets warmer air on the inside. The inverter and motor are the most heat producing parts of the car and close to the inside of the rear wheels. They definitely add some heat to the inside of the rear wheels. I had my rear wheels aligned pretty recently by Tesla so I doubt they are off.
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    if there is any toe-out at all, that's exactly what I would expect to see. Tread compounds are pretty good insulators, so just because that section of the tire doesn't touch the ground when pointed straight ahead when stopped doesn't mean it isn't touching when cornering or even rolling (in the worst case). I vote for bad toe combined with excessive camber which exacerbates the problem.
     

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