Thinking about buying, a few questions

[Tam]

What if they want to see your CA state income tax submission? These tax credits are often tied to a tax liability.

Good question. I guess they can request something that is not in their guideline but how likely is that?

The website says if they want to verify income, they will ask an applicant to sign off a Federal Income tax report for them to look at. They never mention California Income Tax forms or other state income tax forms.

 

[DonTom]

What if they want to see your CA state income tax submission? These tax credits are often tied to a tax liability.

If that's the case. . .Well, I have not done a state income tax for many years . . .not for any state. No state income tax here in NV.

NV doesn't seem to care about clean air vehicles. In fact, here they hassle the owners more-so than gas vehicles. When I buy my ICE vehicles new here, I can register them on-line. But when I bought my Zero motorcycle here new, I had to go to a full-service DMV, which means either the ridiculously very crowded Reno DMV (often their parking lot is full!)or the very crowded Carson City DMV, which is always my choice because at least they have a lot of parking. Why the none-gasoline vehicle owners are harassed here, I have no idea. But the clean air vehicles do NOT qualify for on-line registration. But I hear it is the same for Diesel. Only gas vehicles are easy to register here in NV.

But even that's a good reason to register in CA, despite any "poor people" refunds. CA does the entire registration thing differently and better.

I figure my new Tesla will be parked in each state about 50% of the time, but it will probably be driven mostly in CA, just because it is mostly CA between here an Auburn.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Good question. I guess they can request something that is not in their guideline but how likely is that?

The website says if they want to verify income, they will ask an applicant to sign off a Federal Income tax report for them to look at. They never mention California Income Tax forms or other state income tax forms.

If that's the case, I hope they will accept a federal tax filed from NV!

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tam]

...Can the AWD select FWD, RWD, only or is it stuck in AWD at all times?...

It's automatic. The goal is traction. Once that is achieved, its next goal is economics: It would try to reduce or shut off 1 motor. That does not have to happen in a long duration, even a millisecond would eventually accumulate in energy savings.

 

[DonTom]

The car shows voltage and current.

The charger comes with a 20 foot cord or so. Hopefully that is enough?

Yes, to get to my 240 VAC clothes dryer outlet as long as I move my motorcycles to the opposite side of the garage.

It will probably also reach in Auburn, I will check that distance on Friday when I am there.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tam]

If that's the case, I hope they will accept a federal tax filed from NV!

First thing first.

For the most, they do not want to see your proof of income in the first place.

When they pick someone for audit, they'll send you a Federal Tax transcript form for you to sign. They then submit to the IRS so they can read that particular year IRS form.

Californian is defined as:

"

• Be an individual, business*, nonprofit or government entity that is based in California or has a California-based affiliate at the time the rebated vehicle is purchased or leased."

 

[DonTom]

It's automatic. The goal is traction. Once that is achieved, its next goal is economics: It would try to reduce or shut off 1 motor. That does not have to happen in a long duration, even a millisecond would eventually accumulate in energy savings.

On dry pavement, does that make the range the same as on the non-AWD?

I thought I heard somebody say that the AWD has a little less range.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tam]

...AWD has a little less range...

NO!

Model S 60 RWD=210mi
Model S 60 AWD=218mi


Model S 70 RWD=230mi
Model S 70 AWD=240mi

Model S 75 RWD=249mi
Model S 75 AWD=259mi

Model S 85 RWD=265mi
Model S 85 AWD=270mi

So what is the theme here?

The computer can manipulate the power of each of 2 motors and all those little milliseconds all add up to a few more miles for you to enjoy its efficiency.

 

[stonelance]

The Model 3 is not the same as the S and X. The Model 3 AWD is less efficient than the RWD. If you want the same efficiency you are going to have to drive slower...

 

[Tam]

The Model 3 is not the same as the S and X. The Model 3 AWD is less efficient than the RWD. If you want the same efficiency you are going to have to drive slower...

Interesting! Thanks for pointing that Model 3 is not the same as prior models.

So I looked into it:

It is hard to tell with Model 3 because all 3 versions, RWD, AWD, AWD Performance are rated the same range of 310 miles.




The MPGe ratings and kWh / 100 mi do show that AWD and AWD Performance are not as efficient.

Prior Performance AWD S/X models are not as efficient as non-Performance AWD models but in here, they are the same 116 MPGe and 29 kWh / 100 mi.

But it's all academic to understand which Model 3 is which because what counts is: Can I reach my destination or not?

The rated ranges are all the same here at 310 miles whether one is more efficient or less efficient than the other!

 

[Knightshade]

The "real" range of the RWD Model 3 is 334 miles per the EPA. Tesla asked them to voluntarily reduce it to 310 to match the tested range of the AWD which is 310.

 

[Tam]

The "real" range of the RWD Model 3 is 334 miles per the EPA. Tesla asked them to voluntarily reduce it to 310 to match the tested range of the AWD which is 310.

Just like the real range of 139 mile range Tesla Model S 40 kWh is actually a 210 mile range 60 kWh but it's artificially capped down to 40 kWh 139 mile range.

It's academic to says a Tesla Model S 40 is actually a 60 kWh but in reality, it's just can't reach the same range due to the artificial capping.

Same issue in Model 3: It's also academic to know that RWD Model 3 can drive further than AWD and AWD Performance but they are all artificially capped at 310 miles.

If I encounter slippery wet road or snowy road, I would pick a 310 mile AWD rather than a 310 mile RWD because the RWD might experience slippage and waste energy and might shorten the range.

 

[Knightshade]

Just like the real range of 139 mile range Tesla Model S 40 kWh is actually a 210 mile range 60 kWh but it's artificially capped down to 40 kWh 139 mile range.

It's academic to says a Tesla Model S 40 is actually a 60 kWh but in reality, it's just can't reach the same range due to the artificial capping.

Same issue in Model 3: It's also academic to know that RWD Model 3 can drive further than AWD and AWD Performance but they are all artificially capped at 310 miles..

Except that is not, even remotely, what I said, or what Tesla did with the model 3.

They didn't "cap" the RWD.

They just said to the EPA "Hey, can you print the number 310 instead of the 334 your testing showed? This way it's less obvious to customers that AWD hurts range on the model 3."

And the EPA did.

The car wasn't changed at all.

 

[Tam]

....They didn't "cap" the RWD....

It is also academic to know the background that Tesla didn't cap Model 3 RWD down to 310 miles because no matter how much I have tried, I cannot put more than 310 miles into my battery. See the charging table progress below:

 

[stonelance]

The "range" shown in the Model 3 battery display, and recharge rate are mostly BS numbers that assume an efficiency of 240kWh/mi. It isn't a reflection of the actual real range. The RWD is actually more efficient than that normally so the range is longer than what it shows, and the AWD is less efficient normally so the range is less than what it shows.

Whenever you see "range" in miles or charge "rate" in mph, what they are really showing you is an energy and power converted to distance\speed with a fixed number. It is kind of unfortunate they did that and not just show energy and power, but I guess it is more "intuitive" to most people that are used to those units in other cars.

The only place in the Tesla where your actual efficiency is taken into account is your "remaining charge at destination" when using nav.

 

[Tam]

...BS numbers...

Ok. So, if I don't like to speak in miles: My Model 3 has never allowed me to charge more than 100%. So who caps that number of 100% if no one caps it?

According to Car And Driver:

"A simple conversion using the EPA filing’s listed voltage of the battery pack, at 350 volts, and the energy capacity, at 230 ampere-hours, returns a capacity of 80.5 kWh.

Although CEO Elon Musk had previously said that the capacity of the top Model 3 wouldn’t be beyond 75 kWh, it’s likely he was referring to usable capacity, which is often around 90 percent (or a bit more for Tesla, some sources say) of the battery pack’s stated capacity."

Again, it is only academic to feel good that Model 3 has 80.5 kWh battery that is much bigger than Tesla Model S 40 and Tesla Model S 60... But in reality, do Model 3 drivers get access to all of 80.5 kWh?

 

[stonelance]

Yes, clearly you can't charge more than 100%, but there is no "100%" range, or cap on range. Actual range depends on actual efficiency (actual energy use\mile) and the remaining charge, and actual efficiency depends on a ton of factors that Tesla has no control over, and is not even consistent throughout a trip, so they just assume some fixed value.

 

[Tam]

...cap...

I can't find any article saying definitely that Model 3 battery is capped but it's implied when they talk about Model 3 LR battery calculated capacity as 80.5 kWh while Elon Musk says it's about 75 kWh:

2016 Model X 60D calculation is actually 87.5 kWh "even though we know the model actually came with a software-limited 75kWh pack."

2016 Model S 75 RWD calculation is 98 kWh...

 

[Knightshade]

The whole point is the RWD actually can go 334 miles on a full charge regardless of how the car displays anything.

Because that's how far the EPAs actual tested range was.

Then Tesla asked them to publish a lower number instead so that it'd match the actual tested range of the AWD model 3 at 310.

 

[DonTom]

I am curious why the Model S gets better range with AWD when the model 3 gets less.

-Don- Reno, NV