Three Phase Service in USA

[division]

Does anyone have any intel when a three phase compatible Gateway will be released in the US? How does three phase compatibility work with Gateway 2 in Europe/UK/Australia when the Powerwal 2 itself is single phase?

I’m building a new home with 400A 3-phase service with solar and trying to achieve whole home backup with Powerwall 2 and getting really spotty information from Tesla.

Anybody have any info?

 

[miimura]

The Gateway 2 available in Europe and Australia only backs up one phase. The key difference is that they have 230Y400V power (or slightly higher like 240Y415V). That means that the Powerwall is connected between one phase and Neutral. If you are in the USA, I assume you will be getting 120Y208V service. It may be possible for the North American gateway to back up two of the three phases. However, if the inverter is rigidly designed for 180 degree phase between the two 120V legs (as is normal for 240V split phase service), then it won't work. You also won't be able to back up any 3-phase loads.

Tesla really needs to release a Powerwall that has an integrated 3-phase inverter so that it can back up three phase loads and accept power from 3-phase solar inverters.

If you are able, I strongly suggest you go back to 240V split phase service.

 

[division]

I wish we could. Unfortunately we need more power and there is no room for a transformer so we have to go three-phase. It's quite frustrating that Tesla hasn't figured this out yet because I assume they would have to for commercial applications anyway.

 

[miimura]

I wish we could. Unfortunately we need more power and there is no room for a transformer so we have to go three-phase. It's quite frustrating that Tesla hasn't figured this out yet because I assume they would have to for commercial applications anyway.

Your situation must be quite unique. I don't think PG&E will allow any residential service to be three phase. Multi-family is frequently 120/208V but only L1/L2 not all three phases.

Want a Powerpack???

 

[division]

Ha. Sure I'll take it!

 

[Jays200]

I've had a PW2 reserved since Nov' 17 but desperately want a 3 phase version as my existing inverters are 3 phase, my Tesla charges from the Tesla supplied 240V 32A 3 phase 22kW HPWC and I want my whole home backed up across all 3 phases if/when an outage occurs, as opposed to a third of my house or "critical loads". They're all "critical". C'mon Tesla, it's no harder than a 3 phase solar inverter that Fronius has been selling for years. BTW, call it PW3 and make it 20kWh too, please.

 

[division]

How common is three-phase service in Single Family Residential in Australia? It's not that common in the US (although becoming more common) but we don't even have the three-phase Gateway here as I believe Europe and Australia have.

 

[MXLRplus]

Last time I asked Tesla about 3ph Powerwall support, they still indicated it's on their 'to do' list. This was in March.
It's very odd considering Tesla does support 277v which is sourced from 3ph. And they install commercial solar systems which are all 3ph.

All the major solar players do 3ph, my SolarEdge system is 480 3ph.

In my fantasy world, somebody would make a solar system inverter that has a EV DCFC output connection. This gives you the most bang for buck for EV charging. Instead, we all convert DC panels into AC juice to feed a AC/DC charger to feed a DC battery when we started out with up to 800vdc when we began. The solar system can adjust it's DC voltage very easily. It's making perfectly what we need to begin with.

 

[PBBear]

How common is three-phase service in Single Family Residential in Australia? It's not that common in the US (although becoming more common) but we don't even have the three-phase Gateway here as I believe Europe and Australia have.

Fairly common - many homes get upgraded to 3-phase to service a new higher power aircon system, or (shudder) swimming pool heater, if its not done with gas. Lately, some large induction cooktops recommend the house being connected to a 3-phase supply, if only so the cooktop can be on one phase and other things on the the other phases. At a rough guess, 1-in-5, perhaps 1-in-4 Australian homes might have 3-phase?
I got 3-phase to put in a 3-phase airconditioner. The PW2 sits on one phase, and the installer wired every light and power circuit-breaker across to that one phase - so whole-home backup, except of course the 3-phase aircon which will not run when the grid is down. Normally with 3-phase supply the various power and light circuits *should* be scattered across all the phases to even up the power draw on each on average - but that can be fixed up in the distribution board.

 

[Jays200]

How common is three-phase service in Single Family Residential in Australia? It's not that common in the US (although becoming more common) but we don't even have the three-phase Gateway here as I believe Europe and Australia have.

I don't know the percentage of single vs 3 phase, however, ignorant and budget conscious would by default get single phase but all street power is 3 phase and the only cost difference is in the copper wire and meter. Most house loads are single phase anyway with the exception of some pool pumps/heaters, some bore pumps, larger older air-cons etc. I always preferred the idea of 100+ amps of single phase 240v being split over 3 phases since it went past my home anyway. My 35 year old house has 3 x 100A boundary fuses of 240v good old Aussie juice. I have 3 x 22kW sockets and can power all of them simultaneously and run the rest of my house too. That's a lot of US 110volt amps equivalent

 

[Vines]

Tesla has so much going on that I don't see native 3 phase gateways to be a big money maker, so lower priority. Tesla has so many irons in the fire, imagine how small of a slice of the US population has a 3 phase service. Generator support for instance is much more important imo.

Its a good question whether Tesla will release even a 400A version, let alone a 3 phase, 400A version. Not sure you could tolerate a 2 Gateway topography anyway, its not ideal.

Tesla is famous for going after the largest area under the curve for the investment. I would not be surprised that less than 1% of customers would be served by a 3 phase product.

As to the technical ease, its not exactly just like any 3 phase inverter. A typical home with 3 phase PV inverter will have a blend of both single phase and 3 phase loads. A typical PV inverter sends balanced 3 phase power back to the grid, but a design like this needs some balancing across the legs as well, since you will be operating in off grid mode and cannot have an imbalance.

There are rumors of 3 phase non backed up Powerwall designs being tested, and I imagine this is one of the difficulties they need to address. I'd make friends at Tesla and convince your AHJ to let you do a Powerpack.

 

[mongo]

Last time I asked Tesla about 3ph Powerwall support, they still indicated it's on their 'to do' list. This was in March.
It's very odd considering Tesla does support 277v which is sourced from 3ph. And they install commercial solar systems which are all 3ph.

All the major solar players do 3ph, my SolarEdge system is 480 3ph.

3 phase grid tied, what commercial solar and Power/ Mega pack are, is just 3 independent inverters (other than DC side balancing) of the proper voltage rating. The grid supplies the timing and buffers the system.
Three phase islanding (behind a Gateway during a grid failure) requires the three inverters to be synchronized and also to react to each other's output variations. Not impossible, but not a direct copy over either.