To OZEV or not to OZEV?

[Fenlandmud]

Browsed these forums and particularly the EV charge discussions but just wondering about the viability of a non-OZEV charge installation. I was fortunate enough to build an extension last year and buried a power supply within the front wall ready for a future EV charger, we cabled back to a 40a type A EV fuse in the new fuse board ready. My mistake seems to have been not putting a data cable in.

Zappi installers 2 quotes so far £899 - £1100 to fit the charger to the front of the house with their wireless data link add on.....or:
Tesla wall charger £449 + £150 PEN device + call out to get the electrician back to install...£750-850?

The Zappi quote feels like they just priced a standard install inc cabling and fuses then added in the wireless data link...rather than pricing the actual lesser job.

With the OZEV quotes being so high I might aswell go TWC...I don't think I really NEED the data detail as i'm on standard tariff with no solar...

Or am I missing something critical about the data feedback?

 

[kelvin 660]

I have the TWC and it's great when you want to remove the charge from the car. Just press the button! Only problem is if you are on Octopus GO (4hrs) and your charge time is more than 4 hours you will go into peak tariff rates because there is no "finish charge" setting on a Tesla (yet). Once you understand your cars charging times you can reduce the % to charge to, to avoid going into peak tariff rates.

 

[GRiLLA]

Is that the Harvi device with the Zappi? Do you really need it ? If your main fuse is 100A then you don't really need to be monitoring it with a single 32A charger unless you have lots of other loads in your house. A Tesla Wall Connector isn't monitoring any of that anyway.

If all you want is a simple charger there are plenty of other options that are less than the Zappi, and still more capable that the Tesla Wall Connector (it is really thick-as-mince). A nice Hypervolt or an EO Mini, after the OLEV they'll be cheaper than the TWC and are more capable.

 

[kelvin 660]

Another thing in favour of the TWC is it has 4 years warranty and if you do get into any charging issues you only have to deal with one company, Tesla...

PS. I actually had problems with my first charger and Tesla paid for the electrician to swap the unit out for a new one.

 

[Fenlandmud]

yeah the Harvi...I didn't think I really needed it but you do to get the OZEV...As I understand it the hypervolt uses a data cable too and there isn't a wireless option. If I could get the grant without the data cable id be happy...but I think that makes it a dumb charger.

I have considered granny charging (M3 should be delivered early March) until after the grant finishes and seeing how much the chargers drop in price and choosing one then.

EO Mini does look nice...or one of the other very simple tethered options

 

[Fenlandmud]

The EO Mini appears to be the same as the TWC cost wise for the unit....+install + Pen fault device.

 

[GRiLLA]

Another thing in favour of the TWC is it has 4 years warranty and if you do get into any charging issues you only have to deal with one company, Tesla...

Until you replace the car and would then probably have no way of getting support using it to charge any other make of EV. I do take your point, but one of the benefits of driving Tesla is that every EVSE supplier will be making sure they work well with the top selling EV in the UK.

To prove this point when my Model 3 was one of the earliest is the UK there was an issue with the EO Mini I had, the CTO of the company came to investigate and fix the issue because working with Tesla was their top priority.

 

[GRiLLA]

yeah the Harvi...I didn't think I really needed it but you do to get the OZEV...As I understand it the hypervolt uses a data cable too and there isn't a wireless option. If I could get the grant without the data cable id be happy...but I think that makes it a dumb charger.

I have considered granny charging (M3 should be delivered early March) until after the grant finishes and seeing how much the chargers drop in price and choosing one then.

EO Mini does look nice...or one of the other very simple tethered options

I don't have one, but I think the Hypervolt connects to Wifi without a special hub (unlike the Zappi). It can use a data cable to receive a signal from a CT clamp if you want it to monitor the incoming mains load, but I can't see why that's necessary if it's not viable for you.

 

[scdoubleu]

Until you replace the car and would then probably have no way of getting support using it to charge any other make of EV.

The TWC will charge any CCS-equipped EV. There are configuration settings to permit charging any EV, lock it down to just Tesla vehicles, or even to just a single Tesla.

Whether or not it actually works I can't say!

 

[GRiLLA]

The TWC will charge any CCS-equipped EV. There are configuration settings to permit charging any EV, lock it down to just Tesla vehicles, or even to just a single Tesla.

Whether or not it actually works I can't say!

It can, but I wish you luck calling Tesla to explain it's not working with a new EV from another manufacturer. Yes all cars and chargers should work with each other, however it's not always the case.

 

[Mrklaw]

do you need load limiting - i.e stopping the car charging if a bunch of other stuff is on in the house? If you do then the tesla I don't think supports that but the zappi and others do.

Zappi will let you schedule your charge period eg if you go octopus or EDF or any timed off peak tariff. This might be more common in future and if the government pushes ahead with demand balancing there might be other types of tariff that come out around that - bit like octopus intelligent.

However even though Tesla doesn't let you put in a start/stop time, you can still do that with software like teslafi so that can be an option in future if needed

 

[pgkevet]

Data without a data cable is easy - use powerwall adapters - cheap as chips.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

I have the TWC and it's great when you want to remove the charge from the car. Just press the button! Only problem is if you are on Octopus GO (4hrs) and your charge time is more than 4 hours you will go into peak tariff rates because there is no "finish charge" setting on a Tesla (yet). Once you understand your cars charging times you can reduce the % to charge to, to avoid going into peak tariff rates.

I just use ev.energy, it controls the car so it only charges during off peak.

 

[Fenlandmud]

This evening the Hypervolt installer confirmed it can run without a data cable but cannot be warrantied nor does it meet the OZEV…so that’s one option out. Waiting to hear from Ohme if they have wifi-only or another solution…might try wallbox too for the main players.

 

[GRiLLA]

This evening the Hypervolt installer confirmed it can run without a data cable but cannot be warrantied nor does it meet the OZEV…so that’s one option out. Waiting to hear from Ohme if they have wifi-only or another solution…might try wallbox too for the main players.

I would suggest giving Hypervolt a ring, either that's plain wrong or the installer didn't understand. From their website it can be connected via either WiFi or Ethernet.

Also the installers guide at Hypervolt Home 2.0 – Installation Guide – Hypervolt Support has no reference to connecting a data cable.

My EO charger doesn't have any data wire, the same will be true for nearly everyone here if their chargers are in range of their Wifi. Zappi doesn't need a data wire either, in fact it won't even use one for data if you have one.

The only purpose that some chargers have for a wire is to optionally use it to monitor the current on your main fuse through a CT clamp, but that's entirely optional if the loads in your house aren't likely to be challenging. If that was the case then the TWC would be out of the question as it doesn't have that capability. OLEZ doesn't care about that.

 

[Fenlandmud]

Interesting that, I spoke to Hypervolt directly yesterday using their call centre and then had one of their installers call too in the evening both of who said it needs the data cable and you can extend it using CAT5 to the CT clamps....or they wouldnt be able to warranty it.

I am not an expert in what is/isnt required but I can only go on what they tell me. If they could supply power only and everything else via wifi it would be a win as the main hub is about 1m from the charger in my office.

 

[qwickshot]

The data cable is for its power monitoring capabilities and not it’s internet capabilities.

The data cable goes to a CT (current transformer) clamp to the main cable coming into the property. It only uses 1 of the 4 pairs in the cable. It’s there to stop the main fuse blowing if you have a sudden spike in demand from your house. That said with a 100a main fuse, the chances of that are very slim. They need significantly more than 100a for a sustained period to blow.

Most chargers don’t actually have this functionality so to me, it’s not necessary and I don’t think them saying no warranty would actually be legal. If the unit went faulty then it would have nothing to do with the grid monitoring functionality.

If the main fuse blows however unlikely that is to happen, it wouldn’t be hypervolt problem to solve. You and the DNO would be responsible and they’d charge you to replace it. But like I said, very unlikely to happen.

Edit: I should add that the solar functionality wouldn’t work either.

Given you already have a suitable cable and RCD in place, I’d probably just get the Tesla charger as it will likely be cheaper to install.
I’d only a Zappi or Hypervolt of you want/need that extra functionality like solar etc.

 

[Rangefright]

This evening the Hypervolt installer confirmed it can run without a data cable but cannot be warrantied nor does it meet the OZEV…so that’s one option out. Waiting to hear from Ohme if they have wifi-only or another solution…might try wallbox too for the main players.

The Ohme unit requires a decent wi-fi signal. That is the one that I went for. No problem with OZEV.

 

[Adopado]

The Zappi quote feels like they just priced a standard install inc cabling and fuses then added in the wireless data link...rather than pricing the actual lesser job.

To be fair, for the Zappi to make use of it's advanced functions (which is why people choose it) you will need a connection between it and the CT clamps(s). The Harvi is highly likely to be the cheapest and least disruptive way of achieving this. Yes you can run a network cable from the Zappi to the CT clamp(s) or use short network cable lengths and Powerline boxes (plus installation) but I would be surprised if this would be cheaper. The Harvi is only £55 of that cost!

 

[Fenlandmud]

Yes @qwickshot I'm on a 100a so I wasn't too worried about overload. And I understood the data vs wifi but if Zappi can do it wirelessly I thought perhaps one of the others could too.

Maybe hypervolt wouldn't warrant it because they wouldn't consider it a 'complete installation', rather than it not working.

I'm now waiting a response from wallbox about the data bit. But I am leaning towards the Tesla + PEN fault protection.