Towing an Alto F1743 trailer with a Model X

[BerTX]

As noted by DCGOO is the main reason. The NEC allows circuits to be "derated" in certain conditions. I'm not sure but a stall may in fact share one circuit to feed all the outlets in that one bay. So the 50 amp plug would be 100% rated and the 30 AMP might be shared on that same 50 amp outlet. I'm not sure, but the main panel downstream is definitely derated. They are not expecting a lot of power to be consumed by a single trailer. So they allow percentage drop at the main panel based on how many camp sites are there. The more sites the larger the derating. It usually works for all the campers. Have a bunch of Tesla's show up and start charging breakers are going to start popping at the main panel. Plus the wiring will start deteriorating over time.

Did you guys add brake controllers to your cars? I'm running electric brakes on the trailer and still want them. I don't have a surge brake on my trailer. Test driving this morning i still have the regen stopping the car, but want them for insurance.

Doesn't the Tesla cut back the amperage it is using if it sees a drop in voltage? Maybe that's why @ecarfan hasn't seen a problem when using both the trailer and car charger at the same time -- the Tesla sees a voltage drop when the heater or a/c cuts in on the trailer and dials back?

 

[ecarfan]

Did you guys add brake controllers to your cars? I'm running electric brakes on the trailer and still want them. I don't have a surge brake on my trailer. Test driving this morning i still have the regen stopping the car, but want them for insurance.

I don’t know the VA law but in CA any trailer over 1,500 lbs has to have its own brakes, and if they are electric than you need to control them from the tow vehicle. If you search this forum for “brake controller” you will find a number of threads about them including this very informative thread which provides valuable advice that I used in installing my Tekonsha brake controller:
Installing a Tekonsha Prodigy P2 Brake Controller in a Model X

 

[ecarfan]

Doesn't the Tesla cut back the amperage it is using if it sees a drop in voltage? Maybe that's why @ecarfan hasn't seen a problem when using both the trailer and car charger at the same time -- the Tesla sees a voltage drop when the heater or a/c cuts in on the trailer and dials back?

Yes I believe the Tesla will decrease the amp draw while charging if it detects a need to do so.

I just returned from a 2-day stay in Pinnacles National Park, dry camping with no hookup. Charged at Casa de Fruta coming and going. Fantastic hiking and beautiful wildflowers! Also, saw some condors.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I don’t know the VA law but in CA any trailer over 1,500 lbs has to have its own brakes, and if they are electric than you need to control them from the tow vehicle. If you search this forum for “brake controller” you will find a number of threads about them including this very informative thread which provides valuable advice that I used in installing my Tekonsha brake controller:
Installing a Tekonsha Prodigy P2 Brake Controller in a Model X

Yes that was the you tube video I saw. Tesla support emailed me a link to view it. I ran around with my head cut off and got it all together and hit the road.

Just getting back from the trip. used a lot of power running around this weekend. I think I had a little over 50% loss towing that brick. Maybe 55% in some of the mountainous ranges. 650-700 average wh/mile. Didn't dare pass any super chargers. I was always just a couple miles short of making it to the next one. On spot was so bad I lost 5 miles on the gauge for each mile driven.

Also we have a VA law that requires electric brakes must work if you have them, which my trailer did. Funny thing is just like normal driving I really still did not use the brake pedal that much. I felt like it was there just incase of an emergency would I have used them.

 

[markcobb]

Sometimes my Alto trailer surprises me with unexpectedly low Wh/mi numbers. I’m now in Sedona, AZ. Part of my route here was a possible concern: the Supercharger “gap” between Barstow and Needles. I began that section 25 miles east of Barstow in the Newberry Mountain RV Park. Started eastbound with 282 rated miles (100% charge in my X100D after almost two years of ownership) and initially kept my speed to 50. After 20 miles I was surprised to see that energy usage was 412Wh/mi! No wind that I could see, flat dry road, but still that number seemed unreal. I increased to 55mph and arrived at Kingman with 100 miles of range remaining, averaged 473Wh/mi for that 118 mile segment. The EVTO app had predicted I would use 609Wh/mi at 54mph (I have the Power Factor set to 25 and normally that is about right). I can’t explain the discrepancy. Typically EVTO is very good at predicting my energy usage when towing.

Here’s my campsite in Sedona, at the Rancho Sedona RV Park which is a great place!

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Sedona scenery is extraordinary.

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[markcobb]

Yes I believe the Tesla will decrease the amp draw while charging if it detects a need to do so.

I just returned from a 2-day stay in Pinnacles National Park, dry camping with no hookup. Charged at Casa de Fruta coming and going. Fantastic hiking and beautiful wildflowers! Also, saw some condors.

View attachment 394806 View attachment 394807 View attachment 394808

Have you ever gone from Rocklin ca. to Truckee Ca. ?? If so what where the #s for towing your trailer ...

 

[ecarfan]

Have you ever gone from Rocklin ca. to Truckee Ca. ?? If so what where the #s for towing your trailer ...

As it happens, on June 13th I am planning on doing that very route (while towing) for the first time. I’ll report back on my wH/mi numbers.

Was at the Trout Creek campground recently, run by PG&E, near Lake Pillsbury CA, northeast of Ukiah (very helpful to have a Supercharger there). http://recreation.pge.com/reservations/siteDetails.asp No hookups, and lots of shade so was not able to generate much solar power during the 3 days I was there.

Nice campground but did not find any interesting hiking in that area, so unlikely to return.

Could hear this creek at our campsite, very pleasant.

 

[markcobb]

As it happens, on June 13th I am planning on doing that very route (while towing) for the first time. I’ll report back on my wH/mi numbers.

Was at the Trout Creek campground recently, run by PG&E, near Lake Pillsbury CA, northeast of Ukiah (very helpful to have a Supercharger there). http://recreation.pge.com/reservations/siteDetails.asp No hookups, and lots of shade so was not able to generate much solar power during the 3 days I was there.

Nice campground but did not find any interesting hiking in that area, so unlikely to return.

View attachment 415587

Could hear this creek at our campsite, very pleasant.

View attachment 415588

I have a X100D also and I'm thinking of getting an R pod or similar trailer and that 6000 ft climb would tell me a lot about the places I can get to...Looking forward to your report! Thanks...Ps ...do you have an equalizer hitch ??

 

[redgt]

Have you ever gone from Rocklin ca. to Truckee Ca. ?? If so what where the #s for towing your trailer ...

You can make it in ideal conditions. I pulled a heavier load that wasn't as aerodynamic. averaged close to 1000 Wh/mi

You just need to get to the summit. I used 1% charge the last 8 miles - its all downhill

 

[ecarfan]

do you have an equalizer hitch ?

If by “equalizer hitch” you mean “weight distribution” the answer is no I do not. My tow vehicle is much more than twice the weight of my trailer, no no weight distribution bars are necessary in my opinion. Go to this page https://electrictravels.blog/2018/09/16/towing-with-a-tesla/ and scroll down to read a discussion of that topic.

 

[Nilnoc]

Ecarfan, you have turned me away from my Bowlus dream, and now I plan to make a trip to Quebec City next month. Damn you for likely saving me $100,000. Or more.

I really like both of the Alto fixed roof models, but am willing to make Mrs. Nilnoc more happy with a larger refrigerator. So why do you think Model X towing efficiency for the 17 ft and 21 ft. models will be very similar? Have you found any real world evidence?

And kudos to you for your magnificent trailer roof!

 

[ecarfan]

I really like both of the Alto fixed roof models, but am willing to make Mrs. Nilnoc more happy with a larger refrigerator. So why do you think Model X towing efficiency for the 17 ft and 21 ft. models will be very similar? Have you found any real world evidence?

So far I have no wH/mi numbers for an X towing an Alto F2114; I’m not aware of anyone doing that yet. My speculation is based on the fact that the F1743 and the F2114 have almost the same frontal area: the 2114 is about 6% taller and the same width and same shape in the front and rear. It is 4 ft longer but that won’t increase drag. The 30% greater weight of the 2114 will only increase energy usage when going uphill not when on a level road or when going downhill.

So sorry to have saved you $100K. I look forward to you reporting your wH/mi numbers while towing your new 2114!

 

[Nilnoc]

So far I have no wH/mi numbers for an X towing an Alto F2114; I’m not aware of anyone doing that yet. My speculation is based on the fact that the F1743 and the F2114 have almost the same frontal area: the 2114 is about 6% taller and the same width and same shape in the front and rear. It is 4 ft longer but that won’t increase drag.

There is a post on the Alto enthusiasts Facebook forum today. Someone towing with an Audi Q5 reports similar gas mileage traveling with their 2114 as with their previous 1743. A good sign.

 

[Nilnoc]

Uhhh, correction. They said they previously had a 1723, not 1743.

 

[doghousePVD]

The reason it is not allowed is technical, not necessarily a legal reason. Each campground pedestal (50 amp anyway) is fed with a single 240v circuit. That circuit is sent to the 14-50 outlet that 50 amp RVs need. It also is split and fed to the TT-30 120 V outlet and typically a standard 15 or 20 amp outlet (5-20). But all of them are on the same circuit. If you try to plug the car in to the 14-50, and your RV into the 30 amp RV outlet, you will very likely pop the circuit breaker in a central cabinet somewhere else in the camp ground.

Yes, the pedestals are technically overbooked, but campgrounds do not expect multiple campers to connect in any one site. You could turn the charge rate down to a very low level, like 10 amps, or use the 120 20 amp outlet to charge your car. Otherwise unplug the camper while you are charging the car. Most campers have decent capacity batteries on board anyway for lighting and electronics. Just no air conditioning or microwave oven when the RV is unplugged.

Your theory sounds good, but the NEC prohibits multiple 240 v outlets off the same breaker. So, no TT30 or 5-20 on the same breaker.

However I wouldn’t be surprised at out of code outlets installed.

 

[Misterbee]

Your theory sounds good, but the NEC prohibits multiple 240 v outlets off the same breaker. So, no TT30 or 5-20 on the same breaker.

However I wouldn’t be surprised at out of code outlets installed.

I have plugged into both the 50 amp 240 volt circuit and the 30 amp 120 volt circuit dozens of times on my current trip, and only tripped a circuit breaker once. That was at an RV park that was a little run-down, so the wiring might not have been in top form. After resetting the circuit breaker, I dialed the Tesla charger back to 28 amps, and all was well.

FYI, TT30 and 5-20 are 120 v, not 240.

 

[doghousePVD]

I have plugged into both the 50 amp 240 volt circuit and the 30 amp 120 volt circuit dozens of times on my current trip, and only tripped a circuit breaker once. That was at an RV park that was a little run-down, so the wiring might not have been in top form. After resetting the circuit breaker, I dialed the Tesla charger back to 28 amps, and all was well.

FYI, TT30 and 5-20 are 120 v, not 240.

I know TT-30 and 5-20 are120 V. Because they are low power, it is tempting for cheap electricians to to run the 14-50 and the TT-30 of the same 4-wire connection/circuit breaker. The 4th wire in a 14-50 is the neutral that the 120V outlets needs.

You SHOULD be able to plug into both simultaneously, according to code, since they are supposed to be on separate circuits. In your RV park obviously were running both off the same set of wires, which is why the breaker popped. When you dialed back to 28A, that left 22A for the 120 volt circuit. The breaker popped because the electrician cheated, not because the wiring was old.

 

[dhrivnak]

I have towed my Aliner (1700lbs dry) with my Model 3. Because most national parks have no electricity let alone Charging I plan to use our Volt on our upcoming trip to Oregon.

 

[ecarfan]

I have towed my Aliner (1700lbs dry) with my Model 3

That is pretty cool! I suggest you start a thread in the Model 3 forum about your experience, I’m sure a lot of 3 owners would be interested.

 

[dhrivnak]

That is pretty cool! I suggest you start a thread in the Model 3 forum about your experience, I’m sure a lot of 3 owners would be interested.

Already reported there. Unfortunately for me I do not see me doing this long distance as the effective range drops from 300 to 160 miles and at most chargers you need to unhitch to reach the charge cable. I have even asked Tesla if one could buy an extension cable as it would be great for towing and if a charger were iced.