TPMS - Again on my LEMON. 4 times 37,000 miles

[wiztecy]

Those mandates kill us in the US. It is one thing to mandate something for safety, but then when this mandated piece of equipment is faulty, unreliable, and fails to do its job for the majority of the time the car is driven, shouldn't there be another mandate to protect consumers that mandates that this gov mandated part be repaired / replaced to function as it was originally specified?

Honestly Tesla should have replaced or fixed that TPMS system on the 2.x's and I'm only guessing that they didn't because there wasn't enough people complaining to a government entity about the issues.

 

[ViperDoc]

Worth adding - despite this particular big annoyance, I also go out of my way to find excuses to drive the Roadster. This is within the larger context of it being our primary car. So while this is a big annoyance, for me it also dwindles away to a nit within the overall context of driving the car.

And yes - this includes driving the Roadster through the Oregon winter rains, all winter long. This will be my fourth winter driving in the rain (if I'm not miscounting), and I can't imagine leaving the car parked for months on end.

Nice! Glad to see another Roadster owner making it a 4 season car in parts of the country with something approaching winter. This will be my 6th winter in Vermont with my Roadster as my primary car. I just hope the other drivers are as careful as I am! It is also the first winter I am going with non-Tesla approved snow tires, Blizzaks, since I always loved their performance on my pre-Roadster cars and never really liked the ones Tesla approved. Through it all, I have also learned to live with the near annual TPMS failure, and when I finally go out of warranty next summer, we will see what it is going to cost me to keep it running...fortunately I have a tire gauge in the car anyway!

 

[adiggs]

Our "winter" here involves me driving the summer tires straight through the winter. They have good wet road traction, and snow isn't a thing for me (I do leave the Roadster in the garage when there's snow or ice on the road - that was 0 days last winter).

It also doesn't get particularly cold - I'll continue driving the Roadster as temperatures get down towards freezing, but I leave it in the garage if we get a cold snap good for "serious" cold weather, which is about 25F. I recognize that probably sounds like balmy warm weather, but it's a benefit of living in the Pacific NW. We get a lot of rain over the winter, but our pattern here is we just about never touch 20F, and the further below 32 we go, the drier it gets (clear and cold, or warm and wet - often nothing in between).

 

[scotty2541]

If there is a problem with either antenna, nothing will show on any tire, even though the other half is still working. Try letting the air out and see what happens. The receiver/module is located under the far left side of the dash, behind the round air vent. Each antenna is located in the center of the car front and rear, about a foot back from the bumper. They are easily visible once you remove the lower aluminum panels on the bottom.

Okay, I ran a test. I kinda expected to get a low tire warning, but I didn't. What I got was a red indicator...

I lowered the right tire to 19 lb, then filled it back up and lowered the left tire.


Then, I repeated the process for the rear, and go not indication of an error.

So, next step... Where is the rear antenna, what does it look like?


If I know where to dig, this weekend I'll pull it apart and try to determine what is wrong. I don't know of any aluminum panels, I thought the underside of the car was all just that rigid plastic or fiberglass stuff.

 

[scotty2541]

Any car that doesn't work or meet your expectations will for sure irritate you, it would for me, so I understand where you're coming from. As for my opinion that the 1.5 is better is based upon my opinion which is biased for that I have a 1.5, but also being an engineer, I can see and appreciate how this car was built and truly put it out there as an engineering marvel. The 1.5 had to be built solid since this was prove your design works or forever hold your peace and walk away type of stage for Tesla. Granted the 1.0's had their fair share of issues, esecially with the gearbox that was resolved in the 1.5 version. Not to many people had the 1.0's at that point, so the impact was minimal on the customer. Anyways, with the 1.5 I also worked with the purchasing agent who bought all the parts for this car, and they really didn't spare too much of an expense on things early on. However the 2.0 was a cost cutting version, yes there were some minor improvements, but what I can see there were things that gave the customer a really bad experience. Crappy TPMS system, which the only positive part was that you had tire-learning. So that in a sense was an upgrade that gave unreliable results. PEM cooling was improved and the PEM underwent a little bit of a redesign, but with that the cooling was good at the cost that it clogged up regularly with road debris and leaves. The 1.5 CF center console and shiftier was replaced with a faux leather console and push button gear selector, all which cut costs. Tesla did the cost cutting in order to make their investment dollars go farther and to survive which proved to work as we look back today. But any car can turn into a lemon, just bad luck, bad timing having multiple parts fail over and over again, even the 1.5 is not immune to that in my opinion as well

Sometimes if you have a car that gives you grief is to just get out from under it and sell it. Possibly pick up another in the future and do more research in the history, ownership, and maintenance records of the car before you do purchase it. This will at least give you the upper advantage when buying a car.

Well, I too am an engineer (electrical), and I have had bad cars (Chrysler and Chevy), and great cars (several Toyotas and Acuras). I did a lot of research on this, including talking to the service guy at the location where I took the test drive. It took over a year to decide to buy it. (The AC cutting off to cool the battery was something I did NOT know about or expect).

I can see where they tried to build it right, and where they just "got by". My fan speed selector knob caps keep falling off... There were actually loose parts rattling around under the dash, I fished them out with a magnet on a telescoping stick. And the dash itself would produce an annoying rattle, which I had to finally fix myself. When I saw them take my dash apart last summer, I told them they better not mess it up, after I made it quiet. Their response was, "if you have a quiet dash, it's probably the only one in the country" .

As you indicate, the PEM and battery system has a lot of design and protection in the design. I would just expect that the TPMS would fall under the umbrella of something that needed to be quality, not something that is just expendable in a cost cutting meeting.

My wife would love for me to get rid of it. However, I don't want to take that big of a loss.

 

[Stefan T]

It must poslibe to get rid of it in the firmwere
My EU roadstr don't have anny but i still have the meny in vds screen

 

[ML Auto]

The rear antenna is located just above the cooling fans (or fan) on the bottom of the trunk. Here is a pic of the front one, the rear looks the same. You are correct, the rear panel is plastic, the front one is aluminum. I have customized the rear of my car with all aluminum.

 

[Habious]

It must poslibe to get rid of it in the firmwere
My EU roadstr don't have anny but i still have the meny in vds screen

It is possible to disable it in the firmware, however Tesla isn't allowed to disable it on US cars (per Federal law). You, as an owner, are legally allowed to disable it (but, of course, Tesla isn't required to give you access to the firmware to do this on your own.)

Nasty little Catch-22.

Relevant US regulation - 49 U.S.C. 30122(b), which reads: “A manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or motor vehicle repair business may not knowingly make inoperative any part of a device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in compliance with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard…unless the manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or repair business reasonably believes the vehicle or equipment will not be used when the device or element is inoperative.”

Note that there is absolutely no mention of the end-user (you an I) in the regulation. If you can find a way to disable it, you legally can. But, Tesla can't...even if you ask.

 

[scotty2541]

The rear antenna is located just above the cooling fans (or fan) on the bottom of the trunk. Here is a pic of the front one, the rear looks the same. You are correct, the rear panel is plastic, the front one is aluminum. I have customized the rear of my car with all aluminum.View attachment 201300

Thanks, that'll help. I'll lift the car this morning, and try to get at it.

Think it's massively failed? Or just a connector loose?
Maybe a bad solder joint? Like happens to my key fobs (more Chinese junk, as they say).

I have fixed more than one "black-box", "disposable" car component by opening it up and cleaning up the circuit board.

 

[scotty2541]

It is possible to disable it in the firmware, however Tesla isn't allowed to disable it on US cars (per Federal law). You, as an owner, are legally allowed to disable it (but, of course, Tesla isn't required to give you access to the firmware to do this on your own.)

Nasty little Catch-22.

Relevant US regulation - 49 U.S.C. 30122(b), which reads: “A manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or motor vehicle repair business may not knowingly make inoperative any part of a device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in compliance with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard…unless the manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or repair business reasonably believes the vehicle or equipment will not be used when the device or element is inoperative.”

Note that there is absolutely no mention of the end-user (you an I) in the regulation. If you can find a way to disable it, you legally can. But, Tesla can't...even if you ask.

Hmmm... Very interesting. Which prompts me to ask another question, completely unrelated to Tesla or this forum.

My 4'11" wife has to sit close to the steering wheel (in her Acura). If the airbag ever goes off, it will not protect her. It will almost certianly kill her. Can I disable it legally? And not have difficulty with annual inspections (Here in the US, Texas specifically)?

I used to do that to our old Camry: disconnect the battery, remove the bag, unhook the wire, and put it back. Then restore it just before taking the car in for inspection. But I'd feel better to have it done permanently, and legally.

 

[gregd]

Hmmm... Very interesting. Which prompts me to ask another question, completely unrelated to Tesla or this forum.

My 4'11" wife has to sit close to the steering wheel (in her Acura). If the airbag ever goes off, it will not protect her. It will almost certianly kill her. Can I disable it legally? And not have difficulty with annual inspections (Here in the US, Texas specifically)?

I used to do that to our old Camry: disconnect the battery, remove the bag, unhook the wire, and put it back. Then restore it just before taking the car in for inspection. But I'd feel better to have it done permanently, and legally.

There's a thread regarding the passenger airbag, related to child seats, but not the driver. How far must one be from the steering wheel to be safer with the bag than without it? I'm 5'4", and have the seat almost all the way forward when driving, presuming that they were required to be safe in any unmodified position.

 

[scotty2541]

There's a thread regarding the passenger airbag, related to child seats, but not the driver. How far must one be from the steering wheel to be safer with the bag than without it? I'm 5'4", and have the seat almost all the way forward when driving, presuming that they were required to be safe in any unmodified position.

There was a TV news segment many years ago (maybe more than a decade) and people's ribs and lungs being crushed and killed because the bag goes off with such force, and they are too close to it. How far...? I don't remember, but ti was something like 6-10 inches. But don't take my word on it, I honestly don't remember. I only know that my wife is closer than the limit.

A quick google search turned up this:
Air bag safety tips for shorter drivers
which states you are not allowed to disable it.
So, our federal government knows it'll kill people, but doesn't allow an exception...

 

[scotty2541]

The rear antenna is located just above the cooling fans (or fan) on the bottom of the trunk. Here is a pic of the front one, the rear looks the same. You are correct, the rear panel is plastic, the front one is aluminum. I have customized the rear of my car with all aluminum.View attachment 201300

It's off. And I opened it up, it'll take some clean up before I can touch up anything on the circuit board.
Any risk of driving the car with the unit out and the harness just hanging unconnected?

 

[ML Auto]

I would just tape over the connector to keep the terminals clean.

 

[scotty2541]

Sadly I believe some govt nannycrat has mandated TPMS on all cars and so we/Tesla can't legally disable them.

This one needs a "like" button.
Oh wait. Found one!

 

[wiztecy]

^^ Reminds me of the ObamaCare promise and mandate (yes I voted for this guy twice and hoestly regret it). Sorry to be political but it seems things get worse when the government gets involved and establishes a regulative mandate that takes away from the consumer's freedoms and choices. Its like they have good intentions, but through the political mess and restrictions, due to 'the system' it never ends up the way it was envisioned. Sometimes they're just plain clueless or have other motives that drives them to make known such bad decisions.

Once example of course are the stupid gas can pour spouts that Cali implemented. They wanted to 'combat the bad gasses' coming out of the gas can pouts. Sorry Cali political team, but I have a boat and you nearly burned down my dam boat 40 miles out due to a careless design of your "clean air" quality spout. I spill gas all over my boat deck trying to refill my tanks on a long tuna trip all to help the environment. You're making things worse than what they were and NOW jeopardizing lives that didn't have that risk factor. I can admit I'm breaking the law in California. I bought Scepter Military gas tanks and spouts. Jail me. But I'm not falling for this political regulation bull crap people have been fed and allowed to be steamrolled down by.

My life and my crew's life on-board my boat take a higher precedence over some gas escaping from my 5 gallon gas can. Come up with a well thought out and proper design that's tested before implementing it. Something the government will not do.

 

[scotty2541]

I would just tape over the connector to keep the terminals clean.

Excellent... last question.
The circuit board is coated with a rubber like substance, I'm gonna try to clear it off, and re-secure all the components (surface mount can be notorious for not handling vibrations well, if not done right).

If, by some magic pixie dust and unicorn breath, the unit should begin to function, does it need to be re-programmed? Or is that limited to just changing the transmitters in the wheels? I would think that if it's just an antenna, it doesn't care. Or if there is some small CPU with flash memory that does care, it would still have the same transmitter codes programmed into it.

Any idea? Thanks.

 

[wiztecy]

if the board is covered in some 'rubberized' material, its conformal coating to protect if from water and corrosion. You need special solvent to break it down and remove it properly in order to do any repair on the circuit board. Are you are an EE or know who to work / debug hardware boards? If so you know my talk and move on, if not you are best to just buy a new one or send it to a specialist.

A mistake they could have made was spraying the board where the antenna is. The antenna needs to not be covered with any material, changes the tuning. It has to be exposed. By doing that they would have messed up the reception even the transmitter. Looking into the 2.x TPMS issue I'd first see if the antenna is being covered, if so, get the right solvent and locate where the antenna is. Remove the coating that's on the antenna and test if you've tuned your reception/transmission of that area. If so meaning improved, repeat for the rest.

 

[scotty2541]

if the board is covered in some 'rubberized' material, its conformal coating to protect if from water and corrosion. You need special solvent to break it down and remove it properly in order to do any repair on the circuit board. Are you are an EE or know who to work / debug hardware boards? If so you know my talk and move on, if not you are best to just buy a new one or send it to a specialist.

A mistake they could have made was spraying the board where the antenna is. The antenna needs to not be covered with any material, changes the tuning. It has to be exposed. By doing that they would have messed up the reception even the transmitter. Looking into the 2.x TPMS issue I'd first see if the antenna is being covered, if so, get the right solvent and locate where the antenna is. Remove the coating that's on the antenna and test if you've tuned your reception/transmission of that area. If so meaning improved, repeat for the rest.

Yes, Im an EE. If I knew the communication (I2C, SPI, 422..) and the protocol, I'd build an emulator unit that just tells the controller everything is fine.

The antenna is a wire that is

 

[scotty2541]

Yes, Im an EE. If I knew the communication (I2C, SPI, 422..) and the protocol, I'd build an emulator unit that just tells the controller everything is fine.

The antenna is a wire that is

My phone poated before i was ready...

The antenna is a wire that goes from a corner, across the short bottom, then up the long side. It was also embedded in the rubber spray. I cleaned it, and some of the board. Then reinstalled it without the case and did a test drive. still nothing. I will continue my board cleaning tomorrow.