Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Transport Evolved

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
#223
Aptera is/was planning a hybrid version too. At the Aptera prototype show off events I ran into a number of "wait listers" who were interested because it was going to be the most efficient vehicle on the Road. I think there is a (small) class of potential customer that saw some additional appeal and value in the Aptera concept that you still can't find in the more "run of the mill" EVs we have now.
More efficiency is great, but the extreme styling, questionable practicality, questionable safety, and dodgy business strategy seem to conspire to keep them from ever going mainstream (or even going into real production for that matter.)
 
#224
Exactly. We just are not at a point where 3 wheeled vehicles make any sense. There may come a time when their marginally better efficiency might matter, and those will be desperate times indeed, but I suspect if a four wheeled vehicle were made to similar standards and skirted government regulations you'd get almost equal efficiency in a more usable and appealing form factor. MPT said it well, people were so desperate for an EV they said Quick, an EV, buy it!
 
#227
#232
Last edited by a moderator:
#234
Transport Evolved 63 - 99 Drams of Fuel


Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield, Michael Thwatie and guest Chelsea Sexton as they discuss the weekapos;s news in the world of electric cars, including the Nissan Leaf powered by Scotch Wiskey, Journalistic integrity, the cost of public charging and much more. Full shownotes available at Google Moderator
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#236
Just watched the show after we were kicked off the live version due to the technical issues.

Re: Journalists - I think Chelsea hit the nail on the head with this. You can't call yourself a journalist and be on the payroll of a company in the industry you are writing about. The author in question may well work for Toyota Financial Services but if Toyota Cars sells more hybrids at the expense of the competition based on one of your articles, then that increases the chances of TFS selling a finance package and thus makes your job more secure. What started this debate off was an article which was picked up by CNET about the Vauxhall Ampera which contained factual errors, deliberate or otherwise, that then led to the conclusion that the reader should buy a hybrid like the Toyota Auris. It's a direct conflict of interest.


By the way, does anyone else think that when Nikki was doing her "kill all pedestrians" routine she looked a lot like...?

7831.jpg
 
#239
JRP3 said:
Does Chelsea really not understand why GM got such criticism for claiming to build an EV that was actually a plug in hybrid? Toyota won't get the same flack because they already make HEV's and they probably won't market their PHEV's as EV's.
Click to expand...

Oh, I won't begin to defend Chevrolet's marketing; I have called out many of those choices both publicly and directly with GM. I do understand why they would want to differentiate the Volt from the more parallel-type PHEVs like the Prius, but they didn't go about it the right way at all, and protested way too much about being called a PHEV. Other OEMs have made marketing and communications mistakes too, though they tend to be called out less often. And I expect all of them to skin some knees, just as we did with EV1 (and the other last-gen programs). It would be nice if they'd all learn from our mistakes, but it seems they're as unwilling to do that as our kids are. :)

I've no issue with critiques of any plug-in based on its features, or any company based on its choices- no matter the company involved. However, I've seen a lot of criticism that- to me, seems based much more in overall resentment of GM's past mistakes. I get it- even helped create it by being such a vocal critic of their handling of the EV1, but all of these companies (except Honda, perhaps) handled their last EV programs badly. In different ways, I think Toyota has behaved worse. But it is also now well in the past, most of the personnel has changed, and I'm more interested in what any of them are doing today. I haven't forgotten, but I'll hear any of them out. So I don't agree with criticizing the Volt merely because it is a PHEV (rather than how good it is as one)- but anyone who does so must also take the same issue with the Prius PHV, Ford C-Max Energi, etc. I haven't seen that happening- I hear lots of "the Volt sucks because it uses gas too" or "if GM were serious, they'd have done a BEV", but Toyota has been deemed no less serious for doing the Prius PHV, even before the new RAV4 EV was announced. This is fascinating to me, not only because of the perceptions of the brands themselves and how it could ultimately affect plug-in adoption, but because the vehicles are each an extreme example of their category. The Prius is the least-electrified PHEV that's been announced to date, and the Volt has the most EV capability of the announced vehicles in the PHEV category. I happen to think the fact that Toyota had such a lead on the hybrid platform makes the PHV that much more of a cop-out from an electrification perspective, but depending on how they price it, it could be one of the more economical ways for new drivers to get their plug-in feet wet. For all sorts of reasons, I'm sincerely interested to see how this all gets sorted as the Prius PHV and others hit the road, and what sorts of value judgements the public makes about the technology "flavors" themselves. Will people perceive a value difference in the more serially-configured PHEV vs the parallel ones, the same way they ultimately judged "efficiency" vs "muscle" gasoline hybrids? It may be that GM electrified the Volt too much for people's expectations of a PHEV, but not enough for an EV. Does having a "pure" EV experience in a PHEV even matter? It does to me, but I'm an EV fan to begin with.

But this also goes to dpeilow's comments and one of the original topics of this episode- I do some writing here and there, and occasionally act as commentator or analyst. But I'd never think of myself as a journalist, and my opinion is just that. Even though I've been one of GM's biggest critics, I used to work there. My better half works for Tesla. I have friends at most of the various automakers and I know way too much inside baseball. I'm also an overall advocate for the technology, which means that fundamentally, I want to see any credibly plug-in program succeed. I won't call a car or a company good if I don't think it is, and I'm generally known for my candor- but even I won't say that I'm totally objective. I aim at balanced- but in the end, all I can do is put my opinions as well as my various associations out there, and everyone will decide for themselves how much salt to bring to my table to counteract whatever kool-aid they think I've been drinking.
 
#240
evchels said:
everyone will decide for themselves how much salt to bring to my table to counteract whatever kool-aid they think I've been drinking.
Click to expand...

I like the juxtaposition with TEG's last post.

Seriously, though, I do find myself tempted to diss PHEV's, because I drive a "pure" EV and I think it's where we have to go in the future. But I find myself holding my tongue, because PHEV's are clearly are a step in the right direction. (I just wish GM would stop trying to deliberately confuse the terminology.)

One of the guys in our office is in the process of buying a Volt. He says he'll never have to use gas driving to work and back. He says he'll go to great lengths to avoid buying gas, but that he wants the option to take longer trips when he needs to. It's hard to argue since there is zero charging infrastructure available here. We're going to do our bit to help and provide for EV charging at the office.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

tps5352
TV Show Recommendation: "Electric Cars - Pros and Cons" (PBS)
Replies
19
Views
1K
Energy, Environment, and Policy
SO16
S
N
The Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 (UK)
Replies
32
Views
1K
The UK and Ireland
init6
I
Y
My Pride Shattered!
Replies
27
Views
3K
Model Y
jkdman123
J
S
Am I right to expect ~200 miles range in winter? '23 MYP
Replies
16
Views
2K
Model Y: Battery & Charging
sleepydoc
sleepydoc
T
  • Article
What I tell my friends about the future of Tesla and the automotive industry
Replies
12
Views
3K
Tesla, Inc.
MOE J
M
Top
Back
Blog
New
Forum list
Marketplace
Menu