Tricky terminology: Battery vs Cell & Charger vs EVSE

[TEG]

Just some comments for posterity:

I notice, even for people in the EV industry for a long time, a tendency to struggle to use the term "battery" and "charger" correctly.

Charger is confusing because for most AC charging, the "charger" is in the car, and the "EVSE" (electric vehicle service equipment) is in the pedestal/box outside which people frequently call the charger by mistake. For high speed DC, the big box outside really IS the charger, but not for more "run of the mill" AC connections. Since EVSE doesn't exactly roll off the tongue too easily, and isn't the most memorable term, I find some are trying to coin different terms to avoid falling into the "charger trap". Calling it the "connector box" for instance.

In terms of "battery", the term really means a group of cells, so a typical EV has a battery box, with lots of cells inside. People make the mistake of saying "the batteries (plural) are in there", because they are used to calling individual cells "batteries" by mistake / old convention. Well, in the case of consumer power cells, there are "9V batteries" which have a stack of cells inside them so the term "battery" is correct for at least the 9V, but for AAA/AA/C/D/18650 the proper term is "cell".

So when someone asks "how many batteries in your EV?", the correct response ought to be "one" with some number of cells inside. (e.g., "The Tesla Roadster ESS is a large battery box with 6831 18650 format cells inside.")
Or if you want to be really picky, for many EVs, you would say "two" as there is likely also an aux 12V battery which has its' own internal structure of cells.
(So 2.x Roadsters have 2 batteries, but 1.5s only have one.)

 

[JRP3]

Since EVSE doesn't exactly roll off the tongue too easily, and isn't the most memorable term, I find some are trying to coin different terms to avoid falling into the "charger trap". Calling it the "connector box" for instance.

I think "Charge cord" or "charger cord" might be good, since the "box" is basically a switch that allows the cord to provide power. It's really just a more complex and powerful 110V extension cord, the basic function is the same, connecting the in car charger to the grid.

 

[TEG]

Well you could call it "pilot signal generator" or "safety interlock" or some-such.

In some cases it could have other functions like "charging timer", or "energy monitor" too...

 

[Tech26]

I like how specific you are about the EV terminology. I know what you mean and I prefer to use the correct names for things whenever I can. However, I'm probably not going to waste any time trying to explain this to someone who calls the EVSE a charger or says they think one of the batteries in the pack might be bad. As long as I know what they're refering to I'll be just fine.

We've all been trained by our cell phones and lap tops to call the cable plugged into the wall a "charger". It's a nice two syllable word that we're all familiar with. I'm probably going to keep calling it a charger unless they come up with something besides EVSE.

We've also been trained for decades to call a "cell" a battery. So, you've got quite the uphill battle on your hands here. Good luck!

 

[JRP3]

Except a cell phone charger is indeed a charger, as is a laptop charger, in that it regulates voltage and current from the wall to the correct parameters for the battery. An EV charger is in the vehicle, and the cord and control box simply allow the wall voltage and current to travel to the vehicle. It's basically an extension cord with a switch. Maybe call it a "Smart cord", but since it cannot regulate voltage and current it is in no way a charger.

 

[Doug_G]

I would call the EVSE a "charge connector".

 

[JRP3]

Make it "Charger Connector" and we're good :biggrin:

 

[doug]

Except a cell phone charger is indeed a charger, as is a laptop charger, in that it regulates voltage and current from the wall to the correct parameters for the battery.

I think you give those power bricks too much credit. They're just AC to DC converters. I'm sure part of the "charger" function is contained in your phone or laptop. I often charge my phone via USB. Would you call my USB cable a charger?

 

[JRP3]

Fair point, but the bricks do more than just convert from AC to DC, they reduce and cap the voltage and current, while a USB cable just transmits power from the computer directly with no change, as far as I know. I do agree that there is probably some limiting function in the devices themselves, so the charging duties are shared. You obviously can't charge a cell phone by plugging it directly into the wall socket.

 

[TEG]

Sometimes, out of old habit, I call those cellphone "wall wart" things a "transformer", even though most modern ones are mini switching-power supplies instead of transformers.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

not sure if relevant to this discussion but the term "charge point" is a Coulomb Technologies trademark in the US.

 

[doug]

Fair point, but the bricks do more than just convert from AC to DC, they reduce and cap the voltage and current, while a USB cable just transmits power from the computer directly with no change, as far as I know.

Of course they're voltage regulated, but that's pretty much it. They provide a fixed voltage up to a specified current, which is basically what I get when charging from a USB cable. I suppose you can compare that to the camera model, where the battery is removed and placed in what's appropriately referred to as a charger.

 

[Doug_G]

Sometimes, out of old habit, I call those cellphone "wall wart" things a "transformer", even though most modern ones are mini switching-power supplies instead of transformers.

Switching supplies have transformers, so the description is still somewhat accurate.

 

[GSP]

EVSE is too clunky, so I try to use "charging station." This is my preferred term. However, it would be better to have a good two syllable word, and I sometimes revert to just "charger."

GSP

 

[mongo]

(mod note: this and several following posts moved here from Found a LOT of Model 3's in a Tesla lot - Pictures inside)

To comment just on the last part of your response: Tesla has IP on the Battery technology that has been developed. Not on all parts though but the once that make the difference.

As this is a key advantage with respect of costs, range and other ,I highly doubt that Tesla will give this away. Panasonic can of course sell Batteries (and will) to other manufacturers but not the superior technology Tesla invented. Its unfortunately an often repeated misunderstanding in the market that everybody has access to the battery technology.

There has been a conversation here lately about that topic and links has been posted that proved that point.

To be pedantic (and alliterative), Panasonic sells cells, not batteries...

 

[Garlan Garner]

To be pedantic (and alliterative), Panasonic sells cells, not batteries...

However there is no real difference between the two.

Tomayto Tomauto

Here's a link to Panasonic Batteries if you are interested. The first battery is strangely interesting. LOL

Battery Junction- Thousands of Batteries, Flashlights, & More!

 

[avoigt]

To be pedantic (and alliterative), Panasonic sells cells, not batteries...

very true! Apologize... still learning.

 

[mongo]

However there is no real difference between the two.

Tomayto Tomauto

Here's a link to Panasonic Batteries if you are interested. The first battery is strangely interesting. LOL

Battery Junction- Thousands of Batteries, Flashlights, & More!

Nope, it's a real difference. Especially critical when discussing the ability of Panasonic to provide EV power sources to OEMs.
OEMs want batteries (or packs if you will), cells are useless to them

AA, AAA, C, D are all cells, but a 9V is a battery.

Circuits. Cells and batteries.
Battery vs Cell - Engineers Edge
Difference Between Cell and Battery (with Comparison Chart) - Circuit Globe

 

[Garlan Garner]

Nope, it's a real difference. Especially critical when discussing the ability of Panasonic to provide EV power sources to OEMs.
OEMs want batteries (or packs if you will), cells are useless to them

AA, AAA, C, D are all cells, but a 9V is a battery.

Circuits. Cells and batteries.
Battery vs Cell - Engineers Edge
Difference Between Cell and Battery (with Comparison Chart) - Circuit Globe

Those links are as non-technical as you can get. Anything over 1.5 v is a battery? really?

I wonder what the 3.7V 18650 device is......that they are putting in the Model S and X.

Let me quote a sentence from your link called Battery vs Cell - Engineers Edge:

In common usage, the terms "battery" and "cell" are used interchangeably.

Panasonic is making 18650 batteries for the Model S. They are making "these" batteries Panasonic NCR 18650 3400mAh 3.7V Unprotected High-Drain 4.87A Lithium Ion (Li-ion) Flat Top Battery - Boxed.

____________________

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[RTPEV]

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Those links are as non-technical as you can get. Anything over 1.5 v is a battery? really?

The point (distinction) he is trying to make is that a 9V battery is really 6 individual A cells attached in series (well, at one point they were--that's not necessarily the case all the time these days), so the point is that Panasonic makes individual cells which Tesla assembles into a battery [pack].