The auto dealers cartel is going to try to pull something like this in every state where direct sales aren't already banned, because there is no risk to them in trying. We need to find a way to increase the cost to them for trying to block competition by Tesla or future entrants to the market. A way to do this is to make opening up the franchise law to changes be a two edge sword. If they want to try to amend it to ban Tesla direct sales, whether openly or by sneaky language changes, they should know that will open the law up to other amendments by supporters of Tesla and real consumer groups. For example, can we get friendly legislators to put their exclusivity to warranty repairs on the table if they try to threaten Tesla? It's not the sales they really care about, it's their monopoly on warranty service.
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"Trouble in Missouri"
- Thread starter Benz
- Start date
Most of the editorial press has been Tesla-positive on this, but tonight there is one dissenting voice. The Springfield News-Leader has issued the first advertiser-friendly editorial:
Our Voice: Dealer system serves public
It just parrots the same MADA lines that we've heard time and time again. The handful of comments there are negative to their position.
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I doubt this will last much longer. When debating the Missouri bill, we heard reference after reference to New Jersey and Missouri not wanting to be like the BS seen in NJ. The word is getting out -- overwhelmingly, consumers want their choice. Dealers don't give them that choice, but they have a big tax stick. In addition, it doesn't hurt that many dealers make the public feel as if they're being made love to with 60-grit sandpaper from the moment they enter the lot.
After another win or two, I think the issue will be firmly put to bed for those states where it is not illegal for Tesla to operate. Getting the states where it *is* illegal today to change might take longer, but they will come around.
Our Voice: Dealer system serves public
It just parrots the same MADA lines that we've heard time and time again. The handful of comments there are negative to their position.
- - - Updated - - -
I doubt this will last much longer. When debating the Missouri bill, we heard reference after reference to New Jersey and Missouri not wanting to be like the BS seen in NJ. The word is getting out -- overwhelmingly, consumers want their choice. Dealers don't give them that choice, but they have a big tax stick. In addition, it doesn't hurt that many dealers make the public feel as if they're being made love to with 60-grit sandpaper from the moment they enter the lot.
After another win or two, I think the issue will be firmly put to bed for those states where it is not illegal for Tesla to operate. Getting the states where it *is* illegal today to change might take longer, but they will come around.
Ironic, they were the first to contact me and publish a very nice long article on the front page of the Saturday paper in support of Tesla. Clearly the advertising dealers were holding a gun to the entire editorial staff's head when they wrote and printed that bit of drivel.
I don't understand the tax argument the dealers use. A buyer pays the same sales tax on the purchase price of a car if it's sold by a Tesla store or a franchised dealer. It's the same smokescreen as the employment argument- people will still be selling and servicing cars no matter whether the sign says Ford Store and Service Center or Billy Bob's Ford Dealer and Service. It's just who signs the paychecks. The millions of dollars a dealer says it contributes to the economy doesn't disappear under different ownership.
PACs donate to politicians. I believe politicians are not even allowed to be associated with them but not sure on that. Anyway, if your state has a PAC then that is better. You still host the fundraiser at your house or someplace bigger if warranted and present the big paper check for the photo there. Until there is a PAC, no harm is simply hosting the fundraiser on your own. I don't know the rules and how people contribute so would need to get that clear. I'm sure the politician's team would be more than willing to help you out if you called and asked to host a fundraiser for them.
I applaud the efforts of the Missouri/Illinois tesla owners and feel that the 'grass roots' approach is better with TM supplying lobbyist/legal team. I think it does pit the MADA/dealers/special interest 'big guys' against the upstart US company and citizens (the 'little guys') that makes for swift pressure on politicians by informed citizens. MADA has no good argument to pit against 'consumer choice'. Dealers are always at the bottom of opinion polls about businesses people trust/admire. TM gets a ton of free advertising. I think forming an actual PAC may remove some of our 'little guy' image.
This is incorrect in some states, and especially for local taxes.
Some states charge a different local tax rate for local retail sales vs. sales that come from out of state. In some states, if you purchase a car at a dealership, you'll be charged the prevailing retail tax rate (state tax rate + local tax rate). However, if you purchase a car from out of state, you'll be charged only the state tax rate, which could be as much as 3% less.
My state handles it differently, in that sales tax is collected at registration time based on the county you reside in, so that argument doesn't hold water in Illinois. But it does hold water elsewhere.
While in Missouri, I overheard someone saying that purchasing a car from outside of Missouri has sales tax benefits to the consumer, and the locality loses some tax revenue.
My car was supplied from Tesla Motors Illinois, because that was required to get the $4,000 rebate from IL (must purchase from an Illinois "dealership").
chickensevil
Active Member
Even in my case with VA, where it was "purchased" from NJ because we don't have a Dealership License. All that did in my state was make it annoying to register my car. Nothing more.
When you register your car, you have to tell them where you are garaging the car. This tells them where to apply any appropriate taxes. Also, even when you buy a car "out of state" the taxes are ALWAYS applied to the location where you register the car. The only way you can generally get a tax benefit that I have observed, is if you actually hold a residence in another state so you can buy a car and register it in that state for 12 months. This is because most states will still come in and take the difference in tax and make you pay that. So if you registered in say... NJ first and didn't have to pay a sales tax and then 3 months later move the registration to VA, you would be required to pay VA the difference, which is 3%.
I mean, all states are different, so maybe there are some out there were you can play with other loopholes, but having resided in Ohio, NC, and VA, that is how it has pretty much worked in all three of those states.
When you register your car, you have to tell them where you are garaging the car. This tells them where to apply any appropriate taxes. Also, even when you buy a car "out of state" the taxes are ALWAYS applied to the location where you register the car. The only way you can generally get a tax benefit that I have observed, is if you actually hold a residence in another state so you can buy a car and register it in that state for 12 months. This is because most states will still come in and take the difference in tax and make you pay that. So if you registered in say... NJ first and didn't have to pay a sales tax and then 3 months later move the registration to VA, you would be required to pay VA the difference, which is 3%.
I mean, all states are different, so maybe there are some out there were you can play with other loopholes, but having resided in Ohio, NC, and VA, that is how it has pretty much worked in all three of those states.
I wasn't talking about buying it locally vs. ordering it from out of state (online or otherwise). I meant buying a car from a dealer vs. buying a car from a local Tesla store in states that allow them. One of the dealers claims about how much they contribute to the local economy is how much sales tax they generate. My point was a Tesla bought locally would generate that same tax. There is nothing different about the sale happening at an independent franchise vs. a company store. What you say about local vs. state sales taxes is actually an argument in favor of allowing Tesla to sell in a state. If dealers are successful in banning Tesla sales, so they have to happen online in another state, the locality misses out on their portion of sales tax. Either way the dealers talking point about how much sales tax they generate doesn't make any sense as a reason to stop maunfacturers without existing franchises from opening stores, but I haven't seen anyone call them on it. Of course whether the tax "contributes" to the local economy or extracts from it is another matter.
I agree with you and saw what you were saying, I just didn't take the example far enough. I was just pointing out that the tax situation isn't always EXACTLY the same because Tesla won't have the same coverage with its stores that other dealerships have. While these arguments are happening at a business model level (where your argument is absolutely true), they're being argued at a local district-by-district level as well. Chevrolet has hundreds of dealerships that provide local tax revenues to various localities. A more optimal model (the one Tesla uses) would shift some of that tax revenue to other localities because of the level of consolidation that such a model has.
I agree that to the state it's a net-net proposition - they'll get their tax regardless - but this is a local argument too. Dealers are making the same "local benefits" argument as well, in terms of a jobs argument, and even that editorial I posted last night makes mention of how dealerships giving cars away in a contest provided local benefits.
You have to be careful making these arguments because of the differences.
GoBlue88
Member
It's almost too bad that they won't dare try it here. There would be quite a turnout in Sacramento, I can tell you that.
GoBlue88
Member
When I picked mine up in North Carolina they supplied it with CA paperwork, but the DOT here charges their registration and use taxes when you title and register the car, so it doesn't really matter where anyone considers the sale transaction to have taken place.
Sorry, I meant a literal interpretation of 'political action committee', an alliance of citizens and politicians with the same passion for tesla, EV revolution and the business aspect of it .
I am sure there are a handful and they wouldn't mind networking to fight or support the relevant issues.
I wouldn't even get closer to the traditional PAC or super PAC.
roblab
Active Member
Missouri Anti-Tesla Legilsation Likely To Die, Says House Majority Leader
Looks like they plan to let the bill die on the floor.
Who said there are no smart politicians?
Looks like they plan to let the bill die on the floor.
Who said there are no smart politicians?
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