Trouble in NC: Senate Bill 327

[bollar]

As a follow-up, there now is a Forbes article re the Interstate Commerce aspect: North Carolina's Threat To Tesla Likely Unconstitutional - Forbes

Excellent!

 

[Blue in NC]

Thanks for bring this to my attention. I am an "interested consumer" at this point in NC so this news is big to me. I wrote my senator and representative this morning.

 

[dflye]

So looking at the latest status on the NCGA site (North Carolina General Assembly - Senate Bill 327 Information/History (2013-2014 Session)), appears the bill has been sent to the House Committee on Transportation, and perhaps further?

Ref to the Com on Transportation, if favorable, Commerce and Job Development

Need to track down who the members are of those committees and flood them with phone calls and emails.

 

[jeff_adams]

Need to track down who the members are of those committees and flood them with phone calls and emails.

Send them a link to the Forbes' article. Ask them why they would want to be a test case and tie up state funds defending it in court. What's the benefit to the state in doing that? If they realize they are violating Federal law, they may pass on it

 

[Citizen-T]

With some further prompting, I finally got a response from my senator:

Thank you for sharing you views on SB 327. The bill concerns a number of provisions affecting automobile dealers and manufacturers. Other than the provision affecting Tesla, all of the provisions have been worked out. In committee, I raised the Tesla issue and expressed my concerns with the sponsor and the full committee on two or three occasions.

The bill was going to pass the committee no matter what I did and will almost certainly pass out of the Senate. My goal is to achieve an accommodation of Tesla's concerns. Since I do not have the power or votes to secure it, I must work to try to convince the bill sponsor to accept it.

I believe that if you were to ask the representatives from Tesla, they would tell you that they appreciate my efforts to try to resolve their issue. The legislative process is often not clean or clear. That said, different people, even with the same viewpoint, believe different actions are appropriate. I respect your thoughts and appreciate your sharing them with me.

Please feel free to contact me again should you have questions about this or other legislation.

Sincerely,

Josh Stein

 

[bollar]

Send them a link to the Forbes' article. Ask them why they would want to be a test case and tie up state funds defending it in court. What's the benefit to the state in doing that? If they realize they are violating Federal law, they may pass on it

That situation is even better for them. They can vote for it and satisfy their "obligations" to the dealer lobby and then let the Federal government undo it. "Shucks, Dealers, we tried, but too bad it didn't work out...."

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With some further prompting, I finally got a response from my senator:

Articulate, but not very satisfying.

 

[jeff_adams]

Since the sponsor is the only one who could change the language, perhaps it's time for a local reporter to ask this question "you were advised by several peers to remove language from the bill that blocks Tesla Motors from selling electric cars in the state but you refused. Do you think it's a good idea to violate Federal commerce law with this bill? Is the reward worth the likely lawsuits?"

 

[NigelM]

Forgive me if I got lost in this discussion, but does the whole "not on a computer" aspect mean that even an established dealer can no longer configure your car with the manufacturer and order it for you?

Edit: ah, read through again and see that to use a computer you have to be a licensed dealer with an established sales room in the State. Why does this apply only to cars then? I can think of plenty of examples where retailers have ordered products for me via computer.

 

[bollar]

Forgive me if I got lost in this discussion, but does the whole "not on a computer" aspect mean that even an established dealer can no longer configure your car with the manufacturer and order it for you?

I think the key is that the "sale" has to happen in the showroom. The car can be ordered online, but the purchase has to happen at a licensed dealer's showroom.

 

[Citizen-T]

If I recall correctly this had to be passed by the house by Thursday. I haven't heard that it passes.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

 

[bollar]

If I recall correctly this had to be passed by the house by Thursday. I haven't heard that it passes.

Do you have any more info? It shows in committee still. North Carolina General Assembly - Senate Bill 327 Information/History (2013-2014 Session)

 

[dflye]

From what the morning fish-wrap said, since the bill made it out of Senate, that is enough to keep it alive; the deadline was that in order for a bill (without certain exceptions) to stay alive, it had to "cross over" from one side to the other.

 

[vfx]

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View attachment 21803

That awards list needs Consumer Reports!

 

[Citizen-T]

From what the morning fish-wrap said, since the bill made it out of Senate, that is enough to keep it alive; the deadline was that in order for a bill (without certain exceptions) to stay alive, it had to "cross over" from one side to the other.

Thanks. Makes sense.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

 

[vfx]

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For those new to the thread, Musk goes into quite some detail why this is their position on the Tesla blog: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars | Blog | Tesla Motors

That has George's writing style all over it. Have yet to to hear Elon use a word even close to, "delightful".

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I think the key is that the "sale" has to happen in the showroom. The car can be ordered online, but the purchase has to happen at a licensed dealer's showroom.

So can the customer in the showroom order a car from their phone or laptop?

 

[bollar]

That has George's writing style all over it. Have yet to to hear Elon use a word even close to, "delightful".

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So can the customer in the showroom order a car from their phone or laptop?

I don't know.

The way I read it, the financial transaction has to take place in the showroom. There may be nuances of related NC laws that I'm not considering, though.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So can the customer in the showroom order a car from their phone or laptop?

No, because the bill says you have to be a licensed dealer with a showroom to order a car on the internet. It doesn't not only say that the order must take place in a showroom (so you can't just bring a laptop or phone into someone else's showroom and do an order).

Remember, this bill was written explicitly to block internet sales of cars, they aren't going have that huge loophole in it.

 

[stainlesssteel]

ABC News video from 14 May 2013: What's so striking is the arrogance of the North Carolina dealers president:

N.C. Bill May Block Manufacturers Like Tesla From Directly Selling Cars to Consumers - ABC News

I posted this comment:

"Robert Glaser, president of the North Carolina Automobile Dealers' Association, which supports the legislation, told ABC News ...'We just want them to play by the same set of rules that the other 7,000 dealers in the state do...All Tesla would need to do is to establish a franchise agreement with the dealer and send them cars"...The dealer would also be required to have a showroom, he said, but it may be as small as 96 square feet.

"It can be in a mall," said Glaser. "I just don't know why they don't do it."

Translation:
"I just don't know why Tesla doesn't fall in line, and pay us money for doing what they're already doing without us, so we can add biased and ignorant anti-EV information, high pressure haggling, middleman fees, sales of high margin extended warranties and duplicate options like extra alarms on cars with alarms and magic paint protection. We just want Tesla to add the same unnecessary and higher-cost consumer experience that the other 7,000 dealers in the state do..."

Glaser then added "I just don't know why ABC News is not paying new-car dealers for these interviews. All ABC would need to do is to establish a interview agreement with us, and send us money."

 

[Shakespear]

Link:

Tesla Rides High, But Faces Formidable Foe: Car Dealers : NPR

 

[C.Ford]

This weekend I gave my House Representative (who happens to be on the Jobs and Commerce Committee) a test drive in my S. He was very impressed: with the car, with the fact Tesla is repaying their DOE loan early, with Tesla being an American company. On the web browser, I had the Forbes article discussing how the bill violates the Dormant Commerce Clause and much of our discussion centered around that. He is a freshman representative and I doubt he has a ton of clout, however, he did state he would ask the president of the Dealers Association how this bill doesn't violate that clause. He said he appreciated the test drive because he could now tell the committee he had ridden in the car. I am not getting my hopes up, though. As my Rep said, the Dealers' Association has a lot of money to throw around and that buys influence.