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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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A striking illustration of how insidious the NYT reporting is in this article is how, despite the fact that I was very much on guard when I read it and I paid scrupulous attention, they still managed to plant something in my mind that I registered as fact, but is not.

Twice already on this forum, I said or implied that the NYT's sources included members of the board. I thought I read that in the article. However, I now searched for every occurrence of 'board' in the article and lo and behold, they didn't actually had contact with anyone on the board! Please note how every single time they refer to board members, they craft the sentence such that the board reference comes first, and only at the very end they add '...according to people familiar with the matter' disclaimer. Because they always put that at the very end, and also because it's such a standard utterance, my brain simply skipped it. Even if I managed to catch it in some of those paragraphs I must have missed in others, because I was left with a clear impression that they actually talked to board members. Not just that, but I then went on and propagated that "fact" to others.

If you think these writers don't know what they're doing, think again. See for yourselves:

The events set in motion by Mr. Musk’s tweet have ignited a federal investigation and have angered some board members, according to people familiar with the matter.

And some board members have expressed concern not only about Mr. Musk’s workload but also about his use of Ambien, two people familiar with the board said.

Board members, blindsided by the chief executive’s market-moving statement, were angry that they had not been briefed, two people familiar with the matter said.

Some board members, however, have recently told Mr. Musk that he should lay off Twitter and focus on making cars and launching rockets, according to people familiar with the matter.

Just days after the agency’s request for information, Tesla’s board and Mr. Musk received S.E.C. subpoenas, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Board members and Mr. Musk are preparing to meet with S.E.C. officials as soon as next week, the person said.

But this has worried some board members, who have noted that sometimes the drug does not put Mr. Musk to sleep but instead contributes to late-night Twitter sessions, according to a person familiar with the board’s thinking.

Some board members are also aware that Mr. Musk has on occasion used recreational drugs, according to people familiar with the matter.
Contrast this with the final manipulation that comes at the end, when the actual board statement provided to the paper by Tesla is introduced with this beautiful qualifier:

In response to questions for this article, Tesla provided a statement that it attributed to its board, excluding Elon Musk. “There have been many false and irresponsible rumors in the press about the discussions of the Tesla board,” the statement said. “We would like to make clear that Elon’s commitment and dedication to Tesla is obvious. Over the past 15 years, Elon’s leadership of the Tesla team has caused Tesla to grow from a small start-up to having hundreds of thousands of cars on the road that customers love, employing tens of thousands of people around the world, and creating significant shareholder value in the process.”
Nevermind this qualifier is entirely unnecessary. They are implying there is an ever-so-slight possibility that Tesla PR made it up. Also note how the paper chose to insert this disclaimer, and no other, at the very beginning of the paragraph.

Masterful.

they’re the worst kind of evil. think about all the other stuff they lie about. pathetic.

fyi,
someone posted an article from wired (maybe 2017) backchannel section...basically about conjecture in journalism and blending opinion with fact, tricking the reader. i had it but lost it. went back like 50 pages but couldn’t find it.
 
on this, we have to look at it from outside our own point of view. we know so many more details than most, so when a scathing article comes out it infuriates us because we usually can tell/know the difference between the reality and what was written.

the avg reader doesn’t know this. people close to me that recently kinda follow tesla because of me always blabbing about it, are left speechless by the past week and a half. they only know what they see, which doesn’t look good. these haters tactics are an effort to take advantage of em’s methods and expose him in a manner that suits them.
if you think there isn’t strategy behind some of these attacks, you’re naive. the strategy is for them to become the focus. apparently, he says he has been focusing on them (i can’t believe it’s working, or is he just making it seem that way, i dunno).

we (tmc and heavy followers) mostly look past all this stuff (maybe we complain a bit, and some of our reactions are off color, misguided, unwarranted).

the avg person sees this as he’s come off the rails. this matters. they are future customers, future supporters. remember he’s only garnered support from very few %age of people thus far. the ‘masses’ either don’t know or don’t care yet.
Totally agree that the average person/investor thinks Elon is in serious trouble at this point, and that he is about to be taken behind the shed by his Board. I get most of my Tesla information from here, Electrek, TeslaDaily, and Twitter. I do not watch CNBC (or any other financial news network), but the fact is that many people do watch it for financial news. My Dad is one of them. He sent me an email last night very concerned about my TSLA investments. He is under the impression that Musk is on the brink of being fired by his Board, and that they are in crisis mode trying to figure out what to do. I really could not understand why he was under this impression. The reason is that I don't spend any time on CNBC or reading the financial journals to learn about Tesla news. After he expressed his concern to me, I spent the time watching this segment on CNBC not because I think it is accurate but because it's stuff like this that is informing the average investor. In all honesty, it sucks that the media is covering Elon and Tesla this way, but I do think it gives us a HUGE advantage over the average investor, particularly when there is an irrational, fear based dip like we have just seen. As others have said, we have seen this movie many times before, and we know what comes next.

Tesla's in turmoil, is the game over for Elon Musk?
 
My Dad, who lives in Seattle, actually scanned and sent me the article he read in the paper about Elon and Tesla. I'm not sure if it was a local paper there or WSJ, but it was written by AP Business Writers. It takes the NYT info and CNBC segment about Musk being in trouble with the SEC and his own Board, and combines all of it as factual, then amplifies it. Note that in this article, people expressing their opinions in these sources are cited as "experts." It reads very much as an objective coverage rather than speculative/opinion, even though that's exactly what it is. No wonder my Dad was concerned about my TSLA investments. Whether we like it or not, the average investor still gets much of their information from print sources, CNBC, and Bloomberg. Here's the article from the paper:

Screen Shot 2018-08-18 at 5.51.40 PM.png
 
A striking illustration of how insidious the NYT reporting is in this article is how, despite the fact that I was very much on guard when I read it and I paid scrupulous attention, they still managed to plant something in my mind that I registered as fact, but is not.

Twice already on this forum, I said or implied that the NYT's sources included members of the board. I thought I read that in the article. However, I now searched for every occurrence of 'board' in the article and lo and behold, they didn't actually have any contact with anyone on the board! Please note how every single time they refer to board members, they craft the sentence such that the board reference comes first, and only at the end they add the '...according to people familiar with the matter' disclaimer. Because they always put that at the very end, and also because it's such a standard phrase, my brain simply skipped it. A lot of people skim and read just the beginnings of sentences. I expressly did not hurry, but even though I managed to catch it in most of those paragraphs I must have surely missed in others, because I was left with a clear impression that they actually talked to board members. Not just that, but I then went on and propagated that "fact" to others.

If you think these writers don't know what they're doing, think again. See for yourselves:

The events set in motion by Mr. Musk’s tweet have ignited a federal investigation and have angered some board members, according to people familiar with the matter.

And some board members have expressed concern not only about Mr. Musk’s workload but also about his use of Ambien, two people familiar with the board said.

Board members, blindsided by the chief executive’s market-moving statement, were angry that they had not been briefed, two people familiar with the matter said.

Some board members, however, have recently told Mr. Musk that he should lay off Twitter and focus on making cars and launching rockets, according to people familiar with the matter.

Just days after the agency’s request for information, Tesla’s board and Mr. Musk received S.E.C. subpoenas, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Board members and Mr. Musk are preparing to meet with S.E.C. officials as soon as next week, the person said.

But this has worried some board members, who have noted that sometimes the drug does not put Mr. Musk to sleep but instead contributes to late-night Twitter sessions, according to a person familiar with the board’s thinking.

Some board members are also aware that Mr. Musk has on occasion used recreational drugs, according to people familiar with the matter.
Contrast this with the final manipulation that comes at the end, when the actual board statement provided to the paper by Tesla is introduced with this beautiful qualifier inserted prominently at the front:

In response to questions for this article, Tesla provided a statement that it attributed to its board, excluding Elon Musk. “There have been many false and irresponsible rumors in the press about the discussions of the Tesla board,” the statement said. “We would like to make clear that Elon’s commitment and dedication to Tesla is obvious. Over the past 15 years, Elon’s leadership of the Tesla team has caused Tesla to grow from a small start-up to having hundreds of thousands of cars on the road that customers love, employing tens of thousands of people around the world, and creating significant shareholder value in the process.”
Nevermind this qualifier is entirely unnecessary. Why not simply say "Tesla provided us with a statement from the board"? Do they really think there is an ever-so-slight possibility that Tesla PR made it up? Not really, but maybe you do after reading it.

Interesting how the article affected you as you read it. For me, as soon as I read ‘people familiar with...’ I immediately dismissed everything else said before and after. When I read that a second time, then I started to get mad. After the third time I was fuming, fourth time my blood pressure went through the roof and so on.
 
That's an interesting observation bdy0627. The most damage from articles like the one in the NYT probably comes not only from misleading those who directly read the article, but more generally from other journalists who read it, were mislead by it, and then wrote up their own versions as though based on fact; these are (perhaps unintentionally) even more misleading and are even further removed from the context of what happened.

I've noticed this before with other negative news stories. On top of that, other news sources will probably continue to reference this episode for months to come with even less context, just as they now all constantly reference the pedo story without any context of what the diver said to Musk (I know Musk definitely shouldn't have called him a pedo, but at least he had good reason to be genuinely furious with the guy, whereas the press makes it out to be some random comment out of nowhere, thereby painting Musk as crazy).
 
Yeah, agree with the above post. While I consider myself a decent investor with a good amount of $ in a diversified portfolio, my brother, has about 2-3x my net worth, is a seasoned investor, AND texted me yesterday about EM/tSLA. Basically, what the hell is up?

At least he knew to come to you to get correct information.

BTW, in case you didn’t notice I’m no longer feeling cute and adorable.
 
The lead New York Times author of the article (David Gelles) wasn't a known Tesla FUDster - in fact his last article that mentioned Tesla (back in 2017) mentioned Tesla in a factual (and positive) fashion.

So I can see why Elon took the interview (the NYT has a wide audience) - instead he was trapped viciously.

If I was Elon I'd be fuming - I'm glad he is not me and that he has not reacted to the interview on Twitter so far. He should ignore it - Tesla results will speak for themselves.

Would it have been legal for Elon to record the phone interview? Probably not if he called from California...
I hope that at some point the full audio of the conversation is leaked. Not sure what the recording laws are in CA, here in TX IIRC only one party need know, though there might be Federal laws that supercede for inter-state communication - it's common to have your PBX record ALL calls with a disclaimer at the start (you may remember hearing them when you call into various support #'s that they are recording for "quality" or "training" purposes), but at least in TX as long as one party to the conversation knows it's being recorded (i.e., the company whose PBX you're calling) it's legal to record AFAIK, so I bet it's pretty common to just always record even when you don't get informed of it ...

If Tesla / Elon doesn't have a recording they can release, then maybe someone at NYT will have a soul and leak it.
 
I've been trying to file a complaint with the SEC about the David Gelles Tweet where he takes credit for tanking TSLA SP but their web site keeps giving me server errors (403). Has anyone been successful in doing this?

I succeeded. Where are you trying to do it? The more reports the better. Be sure to note your losses because of the stock market decline that he (apparently deliberately) caused, and be as detailed as possible.
 
It's from the Seattle Times. I'm really disappointed in them for printing this hearsay, and it's kind of surprising as Tesla has a fairly large presence in the Puget Sound... they have at least 3 showrooms (including one in the Bellevue Mall, with dedicated Tesla charging there as well) and a service center and many Tesla specific destination chargers and a couple superchargers. Plus there are numerous S's and X's on the streets as well. But the Times has always been the conservative paper in the area, less so since the P.I. was purchased by them, so I guess it's accepted. I live on the other side of the state but subscribe digitally, so I'll see what's said in the comments section.

But again, most of this article was conjecture, no quotes from the board or anyone directly connected with Tesla, so it's garbage in, gospel out once again. I expect I'll be quizzed about it by my Dad (who lives in Spokane) about this when I speak with him tomorrow as well. As the folks above said, I get all my info from the same sites... I consider the other sites as purveyors of headline grabbing trash, and just get pissed when I read it.

The only thing that has arisen from this recent debacle is the discussion about Tesla hiring a COO, who would/should operate like Gwen does at SpaceX and take some of this burden off of Elon. He's got a lot of irons in the fire and taking someone who he can trust taking some of the burden off his shoulders at Tesla is IMHO a great idea. And it needs to happen fairly soon so that we don't lose the trust of people who are going to buy the cars, solar roofs, Powerpaks, et al.

Tesla has been one of the most important things in my life the last few years and we can't afford to let it get stolen from us by the anti-Teslarites. I for one am a long believer until the end!
 
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Totally agree that the average person/investor thinks Elon is in serious trouble at this point, and that he is about to be taken behind the shed by his Board. I get most of my Tesla information from here, Electrek, TeslaDaily, and Twitter. I do not watch CNBC (or any other financial news network), but the fact is that many people do watch it for financial news. My Dad is one of them. He sent me an email last night very concerned about my TSLA investments. He is under the impression that Musk is on the brink of being fired by his Board, and that they are in crisis mode trying to figure out what to do. I really could not understand why he was under this impression. The reason is that I don't spend any time on CNBC or reading the financial journals to learn about Tesla news. After he expressed his concern to me, I spent the time watching this segment on CNBC not because I think it is accurate but because it's stuff like this that is informing the average investor. In all honesty, it sucks that the media is covering Elon and Tesla this way, but I do think it gives us a HUGE advantage over the average investor, particularly when there is an irrational, fear based dip like we have just seen. As others have said, we have seen this movie many times before, and we know what comes next.

Tesla's in turmoil, is the game over for Elon Musk?
wow first i’ve seen of that video. they are manufacturing storylines, calling the article FACTS.

this is actually the worst piece out of everything i’ve seen or read. it makes it look like he’s alrwady guilty and the board has already dismissed elon and they’re looking for a replacement. they even compared to travis k/uber...Bullsh!t!!!!!

they are DYING for the price to drop so that their “constituents” can get off scot free because they know the privatization is happening. what a load of bullsh!t! em had to see that it was all going to be twisted into a torrent against him.

this is why we are begging elon to ignore the haters, because the stakes are too high. they just stole billions in mkt cap based upon non starter info (or a transcript that we’ll never see - but id bet their insiders saw it). just can’t believe this is the kind of BS we’re dealing with now, when we should be celebrating M3.
see my last post.. this is the whole plan!! turn the tables on elon and his supporters. playing into their hand is a mistake that can’t be made.
 
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Interesting how the article affected you as you read it. For me, as soon as I read ‘people familiar with...’ I immediately dismissed everything else said before and after. When I read that a second time, then I started to get mad. After the third time I was fuming, fourth time my blood pressure went through the roof and so on.

You were right to dismiss the whole thing. You were more perceptive than me. The way they got me was that they also talked to Musk himself, extensively. His participation (which was a huge mistake) lent credence to the whole thing and made me want to continue to read it to get to what he had to say, all the while trying to skip over all the "people familiar with..." crap. With so many board member references encased in manipulative phrasing, a few of them stuck, and I walked away with the wrong "facts" implanted in my mind.
 
Totally agree that the average person/investor thinks Elon is in serious trouble at this point, and that he is about to be taken behind the shed by his Board. I get most of my Tesla information from here, Electrek, TeslaDaily, and Twitter. I do not watch CNBC (or any other financial news network), but the fact is that many people do watch it for financial news. My Dad is one of them. He sent me an email last night very concerned about my TSLA investments. He is under the impression that Musk is on the brink of being fired by his Board, and that they are in crisis mode trying to figure out what to do. I really could not understand why he was under this impression. The reason is that I don't spend any time on CNBC or reading the financial journals to learn about Tesla news. After he expressed his concern to me, I spent the time watching this segment on CNBC not because I think it is accurate but because it's stuff like this that is informing the average investor. In all honesty, it sucks that the media is covering Elon and Tesla this way, but I do think it gives us a HUGE advantage over the average investor, particularly when there is an irrational, fear based dip like we have just seen. As others have said, we have seen this movie many times before, and we know what comes next.

Tesla's in turmoil, is the game over for Elon Musk?
Absolutely agree with you, Media takes Elon’s word too seriously, especially negative comments, Elon could say life is sucks, but Elon would say life is great again at the next turn of events.
 
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FYI, there were some slight revisions to the digital Seattle Times article this afternoon, nothing earthshaking, but this was also added:

“Without the cult of personality around Elon, they’re just a cult of personality that’s burning a lot of cash.”

It’s clear from the interview that Musk is overworked, and Whiston said the best course may be to bring in another executive to help with day-to-day operations. The challenge would be finding someone good at the job yet willing to work at a company so dominated by one person, Whiston said.

The Times cited people familiar with the situation as saying Tesla has been trying to find a No. 2 executive to help relieve some of the pressure on Musk.

Tesla’s board earlier this week formed a special committee to evaluate proposals to take the company private. Tesla later disclosed that Musk had talked with the Saudi Arabia government investment fund about a deal.
 
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I will be watching pre-market closely on Monday, and will probably buy more shares, as a 10% pop is definitely possible, but I also don't want to try to catch a falling knife. My paper losses are huge in the last week, but I don't care as we just got another buying opportunity with Tesla actually stronger than ever. We currently have a Model S and X and just picked up the first of two Model 3s last week. The Model 3 is exceptional! It handles like a sports car. I have friends that have been waiting for an affordable Tesla and had ordered 3s. I know at least one has received his dual motor, and he can't believe how good the car is. He texted me that he has become an Elon believer now. With 20,000+ Model 3s being delivered now each month, the Tesla converts are going to increase exponentially. I'm kind of hoping Tesla doesn't go private because I make a lot of money selling options, but I'm staying long either way.
 
You were right to dismiss the whole thing. You were more perceptive than me. The way they got me was that they also talked to Musk himself, extensively. His participation (which was a huge mistake) lent credence to the whole thing and made me want to continue to read it to get to what he had to say, all the while trying to skip over all the "people familiar with..." crap. With so many board member references encased in manipulative phrasing, a few of them stuck, and I walked away with the wrong "facts" implanted in my mind.

Early life lesson for me:

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

If the media can’t/won’t name names/sources so I can double and triple check the authenticity of the information then automatically out comes the salt shaker for filling. They can’t be trusted as a whole.
 
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