Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Today and tomorrow is the calm before the storm.

All hell breaks loose Wednesday. We'll see if I'll lose everything I have put into TSLA, or if I'll be able to retire next year.

While it will be interesting I doubt the SP will change enough for 'losing everything' (hope not) or allowing retirement next year (hope so!).

Personally I am sitting pat with my lowest exposure to TSLA in years with cash on hand if we see below $250 again in the next few days/weeks.
 
Today and tomorrow is the calm before the storm.

All hell breaks loose Wednesday. We'll see if I'll lose everything I have put into TSLA, or if I'll be able to retire next year.

I doubt either of those outcomes.
IMHO, there is very little chance that the Q1 ER will make a significant difference in the SP in either direction.
The expected losses are already priced in. When they are announced, the bears will shout even louder on the top of their lungs that Tesla is burning cash, but the shorts are all in already, not much left to borrow and short. Elon will promise that everything is fine and dandy and ramp up is going good and will reach 5K/week by the end of Q2. This will make the bulls rejoice, but they are also all in, not much left in their pocket to invest. Those still on the fence (neither bear nor bull) will stay on the fence as the financials looks bad but there is good hopes for the ramp and better financials next quarter.

So I expect to see the same old volatile tug-of-war to continue for another 2-3 months. Major swing for either direction should happen at the end of next quarter based on steak-or-no-steak, i.e. is the 5k/week and positive cash-flow reached or not.
 
So I expect to see the same old volatile tug-of-war to continue for another 2-3 months. Major swing for either direction should happen at the end of next quarter based on steak-or-no-steak, i.e. is the 5k/week and positive cash-flow reached or not.
My birthday is July 10th and this year the best present is the 5k meet and cash-flow positive. LET'S DO THIS TESLA!
 
I doubt either of those outcomes.
IMHO, there is very little chance that the Q1 ER will make a significant difference in the SP in either direction.
The expected losses are already priced in. When they are announced, the bears will shout even louder on the top of their lungs that Tesla is burning cash, but the shorts are all in already, not much left to borrow and short. Elon will promise that everything is fine and dandy and ramp up is going good and will reach 5K/week by the end of Q2. This will make the bulls rejoice, but they are also all in, not much left in their pocket to invest. Those still on the fence (neither bear nor bull) will stay on the fence as the financials looks bad but there is good hopes for the ramp and better financials next quarter.

So I expect to see the same old volatile tug-of-war to continue for another 2-3 months. Major swing for either direction should happen at the end of next quarter based on steak-or-no-steak, i.e. is the 5k/week and positive cash-flow reached or not.

What about the institutional investors? They seem to own a big chunk of Tesla. If painted pic is not as bad/ status-co, they have funds to buy new trances of stocks, and will let the Shorts cover their old loaned stocks as they keep buying. (this is my hopeful scenario ;) )

As retail investors we don't have deep pockets and will just be spectators mostly.
 
Anyone able to help here? Update: I was just able to post the rebuttal

This new one from the LA Times today,

No fooling: Time for Elon Musk to explain why bankruptcy's not in the cards for Tesla

seemed like a good place for the rebuttal in post #1 in this thread,

Open Source Bear Narrative Rebuttals

but, despite registering to create an account I cannot read any of the comments for this article let alone post one.

Perhaps someone could copy and paste the rebuttal from post #1 in the TMC thread above (beginning just after the bold, underlined title)... it is an open source response : )

author of the LA Times article has started to engage me on the reasonability of my 1 in 25 million probability estimate. He has also entered a discussion into why another commenter sees the author having used Anton Wahlman quite a lot as a source for this article as undermining the article. Please feel free to join the discussion (hopefully a discussion is what is going on : ).
 
I will admit, that was my misgiving when thinking about it. I think it's easy to underestimate the brand loyalty of middle America, though, especially when it comes to trucks. Licensing tech would probably be easier.

Now that you mention it... if Tesla Semi can become synonymous with power and reliability (and "manliness") like Cummins and other diesel truck drive trains ... it would not be unreasonable to see the likes of RAM, Ford, GM buy drive trains from Tesla just as RAM and Nissan buy them from Cummins. I don't think Nissan would do it since they already have some experience with EV, they'd more likely do it themselves ... but who knows, if the Tesla brand can be made prestigious in the testosterone overdose world of pickups ...

The key would be to make the Tesla drive train itself such a desirable trait that offering it in your brand's truck before the other guy would swing buyers your way or at least keep your existing loyal buyers (versus buying a Tesla branded truck).

Would Tesla do it, when it might compete with their own truck? Well, perhaps - they can probably ramp drive train (battery / motor) production more easily than new vehicles. Assuming they don't have another automation catastrophe like they did at GF1 for Model 3... Tesla has sold drive trains to Toyota and Mercedes in the past, and the goal is sustainable transport etc, so it might happen ...
 
Now that you mention it... if Tesla Semi can become synonymous with power and reliability (and "manliness") like Cummins and other diesel truck drive trains ... it would not be unreasonable to see the likes of RAM, Ford, GM buy drive trains from Tesla just as RAM and Nissan buy them from Cummins. I don't think Nissan would do it since they already have some experience with EV, they'd more likely do it themselves ... but who knows, if the Tesla brand can be made prestigious in the testosterone overdose world of pickups ...

The key would be to make the Tesla drive train itself such a desirable trait that offering it in your brand's truck before the other guy would swing buyers your way or at least keep your existing loyal buyers (versus buying a Tesla branded truck).

Would Tesla do it, when it might compete with their own truck? Well, perhaps - they can probably ramp drive train (battery / motor) production more easily than new vehicles. Assuming they don't have another automation catastrophe like they did at GF1 for Model 3... Tesla has sold drive trains to Toyota and Mercedes in the past, and the goal is sustainable transport etc, so it might happen ...
There certainly seems to be potential in electric trucks. Nikola got $8.5 billion of orders in 2 years, so you would expect Tesla's order rate to run at at least $1 billion per quarter.
 
There certainly seems to be potential in electric trucks. Nikola got $8.5 billion of orders in 2 years, so you would expect Tesla's order rate to run at at least $1 billion per quarter.

Thats awesome, I with them well. But they are barking up the wrong tree. If Tesla can deliver the specs they have talked about, its is over. Period. Diesel is dead. First Semi's then Ships then Trains, if they survive the Tesla semi apocalypses. Sure, Tesla could be tricking us, like they did with the model 3. I mean, every knew the LR would be over 300 miles of range and 250 Wh/mi. For those who dont know, that is way better then people thought it would be. And reality is that its probably a bit better then that.

Forget the Semi sales, you are missing the forest through the trees. Charging is going to be a massive catalyst and massive profit center. If you understood more what you where investing in, you would know this. I refuse to train you. There are 100 posts on this forum that spell it out. I suggest you read them.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: CaliBear1 and gene
There certainly seems to be potential in electric trucks. Nikola got $8.5 billion of orders in 2 years, so you would expect Tesla's order rate to run at at least $1 billion per quarter.
If you're going to throw around figures like this around here, we sort of expect a link to justify it. Anyway. According to this article, Nikola got 8000 pre-orders, worth $8B. That assumes a price of $1,000,000 per truck. Rather a lot really. The article also says that they are refunding all the deposits. This was to embarrass Tesla, which uses deposits as working capital. But there's another reason to require deposits, and that is to make sure that the potential buyers are at least a little bit serious. Maybe I'll order one.

Edit later: So, I didn't realize that the order includes the first million miles worth of fuel. According to this article, Cost to refill | California Fuel Cell Partnership , a kilogram of hydrogen is about equivalent to a gallon of gas, so say 0.5 gallons of diesel (since it's somewhat more energy-dense than gasoline). A quick google says about 6 MPG of diesel for an average 18-wheeler, which would translate to about (very rough math, I know) about 12 miles per kg of Hydrogen. So the million miles of fuel is 86,000 kg of hydrogen, currently selling for $13.99 per kg (link above). Hmmm... that's over $1M worth of fuel. The truck is free.
 
Last edited:
If you're going to throw around figures like this around here, we sort of expect a link to justify it. Anyway. According to this article, Nikola got 8000 pre-orders, worth $8B. That assumes a price of $1,000,000 per truck. Rather a lot really. The article also says that they are refunding all the deposits. This was to embarrass Tesla, which uses deposits as working capital. But there's another reason to require deposits, and that is to make sure that the potential buyers are at least a little bit serious. Maybe I'll order one.
Sure, here's the link: Nikola suggests it’s no Tesla, refunds deposits on fuel-cell, electric semi trucks
 
There certainly seems to be potential in electric trucks. Nikola got $8.5 billion of orders in 2 years, so you would expect Tesla's order rate to run at at least $1 billion per quarter.
I'm just salivating over how much oil the semi will displace. Using your $1b/Q revenue rate to do a rough estimate below, the semi at about the same amount of batteries per quarter of production, will displace 5-6x as much of energy used in driving vs the M3 per quarter of production.

upload_2018-4-30_16-8-38.png
 
author of the LA Times article has started to engage me on the reasonability of my 1 in 25 million probability estimate. He has also entered a discussion into why another commenter sees the author having used Anton Wahlman quite a lot as a source for this article as undermining the article. Please feel free to join the discussion (hopefully a discussion is what is going on : ).

engaging a lot with the author. he just wrote about how the LA Times $5 billion government money gibberish piece was just a colleague informing the public about "huge" subsidies Tesla was receiving (he brought it up himself). he's been doing a lot of spin on several subthreads, need to go for a walk. some company in the comment section would be appreciated : )

registering to comment is free,

No fooling: Time for Elon Musk to explain why bankruptcy's not in the cards for Tesla
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: SW2Fiddler
author of the LA Times article has started to engage me on the reasonability of my 1 in 25 million probability estimate. He has also entered a discussion into why another commenter sees the author having used Anton Wahlman quite a lot as a source for this article as undermining the article. Please feel free to join the discussion (hopefully a discussion is what is going on : ).

I joined in. I've long had a pet peeve with Russ Mitchell's reporting here. Interesting to see him engaging...
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: SteveG3
Anybody buy any weeklies for this week?

I’m really debating buying a few. I am expecting Thursday to be massively green. I think all of the negative news is priced in. And I expect to hear lots of good news on the call. Not sure if I have the cajones to pull the trigger though, generally when I put money behind my predictions I’m wrong, if I don’t I’m always right. Thoughts?
Hmm. That's an interesting perspective that may not be wrong. Clearly the shorts have dogpiled themselves on this stock to the point where there isn't much room for more. Weak longs sold on the recent drop to $244. I have to believe most longs holding TSLA at this point are confident and not planning to sell based upon the Q1 ER. Elon definitely could mention some positive catalysts regarding the ramp, China, who knows. I really believe the dangerous position going into the ER falls on the short side. However, I'm not confident it will be a massively green day. Maybe a moderate green day? The ramp is still the primary catalyst at the moment, and the market will probably not reward TSLA until it is clear that the ramp is on target for 5,000 per week. With the last shutdown of the line, there is some uncertainty about the ramp progress. I won't be buying weeklies or anything like that, but probably picking up some June calls. Most opportunistic longs are waiting for TSLA to decisively break above the range. At this point, that probably means getting above $300 on volume. Some shorts will have their stops for a range breakout to the upside, so that would start squeezing the shorts a bit. Once it gets going above $300, I think $320 will show up pretty fast. The question still remains, what is going to get it decisively above $300 at this point? Will the ER have the firepower to do that? Maybe it could since sentiment is so bad. I think I'll pick up some June calls tomorrow and/or Wednesday, and then wait to see what happens on Thursday. I'm definitely not going to over-commit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.