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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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Saw a WSJ article today that cites that Tesla’s quarterly results were inflated due to higher regulatory credits and lower warranty costs.

Explains the stock pull back vs political possibilities?

How Tesla Made a Record Profit

That Charley Grant seems to print FUDster stuff.
Yeah, this is a totally dishonest piece. Don't click through. It does stuff like listing payables (ooh, scary) without listing receivables, acting as if GHG credits are one-time (they're not going anywhere, and they're state-based so Trump can't stop them), and scaremongering about warranty reserves (despite Tesla's documented conservatism in warranty reservation).... without pointing out that Tesla would still have made a huge profit without GHG credits and with larger warranty reserves.

Charley Grant has written a classic plausible-deniability "don't say anything provably false, but mislead as much as possible" dishonest hit piece, as opposed to the Linette Lopez/"Reveal" style of "just say something provably false" hit piece.
 
Has anyone ready this tool from The Street?

Tesla's Main Product Isn't Cars, It's Subsidies

Aside from the politically loaded rhetoric, it's full of inaccuracies and nonsense. I posted a reply to Discuss but it's been awaiting moderation for over an hour.
That's the infamous Anton Wahlmann, who pled no contest to securities fraud before he started his career spreading disinformation about Tesla. Have you caught him in any actionable lies? He's usually clever enough to mislead and write lots of nonsense while avoiding provable falsehoods, but he may have slipped up.
 
i said, not my words. i don’t even have the latest software update. don’t be so sensitive.

go read the thread. it’s pretty scathing account of what’s going on. there are some helpful rebuttals.

Navigate on Autopilot is Useless (2018.42.3)
Tinkering is fun and can be cool. Sounds like someone who lost his ability to tinker and wants to vent. I found the thread to be too much negative/group think (don't question the tinkerer!) so I didn't make it past the second page, maybe it improved.

I suppose it is vaguely related to market action in as much as a self-proclaimed fan argues Tesla is absolutely incompetent when it comes to AP, much less FSD. But even with amplification by news outlets it seems clear (despite his assertions to the contrary) that Tesla is ahead of the competition in terms of what they actually offer right now (AP) and FSD is remote enough to have no direct impact on the stock price.

I mean, sure, Ark says $4000/share due to FSD and its implications, but that is a future price. If his venting reduces any value, it would be in taming that $4000/share expectation from FSD. I don't see it as having any relevance in the near term. Other than the probability that it will be referenced over at seeking alpha in which case it might get amplified by news outlets. But there are plenty of "nothing to see here" things that already get published so not really anything new.

In short, I don't see this as being market action material.
 
Agree wholeheartedly. Does anyone think Tesla wouldn't pay 2 times, 3 times, 5 times, even 10 times normal water rates if it wouldn't keep them growing? Of course they would. So they'll truck it in, or they'll pay to install gray water recycling systems, or they'll desalinate brackish water, or any of dozens of other things.
Elon Musk is a master of cost engineering. If it's cheaper to build a factory in Buffalo than to *desalinate water* or *drive it in trucks across the Rockies*, which it will be, he'll use the lower-cost solution. Come on, people.

They can find enough water for the highly automated battery factory they're building and the people to work there, but attempting to turn Sparks into the next Detroit by locating all their new products there is nuts, -- and Musk's crazy, but not in that particular way.
 
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Wow, he suggests making TSLA short positions profitable by ... buying call options (i.e. going long - I kid you not), and he is also warning:

"Using call options to supplement short positions requires a certain mentality. You have to be capable of some cognitive dissonance and thereby allow yourself to use a bullish position to fortify your bearish overall investment."​

Firstly, for the average Tesla short that shouldn't be a problem at all: shorting Tesla after the Q3 earnings report has to come with a healthy dose of denial of reality and has to result in significant cognitive dissonance.

Secondly, he does not seem to be realizing that by riding waves of volatility up with call options he's effectively closing his short position temporarily or is even effectively going long TSLA. Yeah, realizing that would cause another healthy dose of "cognitive dissonance". ;)

BTW., he doesn't actually offer any rational reasons for why he is short Tesla, other than "it's overvalued" and that he agrees with Mark Spiegel - where he appears to have missed the fact that Mark Spiegel first suggested shorting Tesla at $170 price levels... :D

Also, this disclaimer:

"Disclosure: I am/we are short TSLA."​

Is not actually true: if he really does what he recommended in the article then he's actually running a long-short investment strategy on Tesla. Does anyone here with a SA account want to point this out in the comments? I'm curious what kind of hilarious replies such a comment would get.

Is this the beginning of a new trend: shorts will go long Tesla like "Andrew Left", but will still pretend that they are short Tesla? What's their next investment advice: "Buy $TSLA to bankrupt Tesla through an exodus of employees who will go into early retirement as millionaires!!!"?

To me it sounds as reasonable hedge to be honest. If his overall Delta is negative, then he is indeed short. The call side is actually "stop loss" for him.
A couple weeks back I did a short stock/long call combo with total positive delta of 2 or so (day play with ~100% win). If anyone is interested- it is actually very good enetring strategy, if you plan to hold the call side for long term.
 
"While the average S&P 500 stock turns its shareholder base over every 200 days or so, Tesla (which is not in the S&P 500, but with a market cap far larger than most S&P members) does it in about 20. That’s unprecedented in public markets and it means the stock is dominated by day trading technicians. This makes for an extremely volatile brew."
The trading is certainly dominated by day traders, program traders, noise traders, and high-speed traders -- which it is in all stocks now, really. Perhaps more so in Tesla than others. What hasn't been properly understood by most people is how much of the stock is actually locked-off, held by very-long-term long holders like Bailie Gifford & Tencent and some of us. It's an extremely large percentage, more than in your typical stock. The genuine "float", in the old meaning, is lower than it appears to be. The day traders are recycling the same fraction of the shares over and over. This means that the apparent liquidity is... kind of fake? And this is where the possibility of a short squeeze comes from.
 
This doesn't make much sense. Are you in software industry ?

Generally (I don't know how it is in Space-X) you would have dev managers, who manage devs. Then, PMs who manage programs/projects. General Managers usually have both Dev & PM experience.

My apologies insofar as this really isn't market action, but these were senior managers and all I was doing was saying your assessment made sense. From a news article on the firing, "Musk had fired at least seven people on the program’s senior management team at the Redmond, Washington, office..."

Not sure why we're arguing? :confused:
 

  1. 4m4 minutes ago
    $TSLA short interest $11.16 bn, 32.22 mm shares, 25.05$ of float. #Tesla shares shorted declined by -940k over the last week, by -1.4 million shares since Oct 1st, and by -2.5 million shares since The Tweet. Shorts are down $1.88 billion in year-to-date mark-to-market losses

    DrRE1V-XcAAs823.jpg

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Elon Musk is a master of cost engineering. If it's cheaper to build a factory in Buffalo than to *desalinate water* or *pipe it across the Rockies*, which it will be, he'll use the lower-cost solution. Come on, people.

They can find enough water for the highly automated battery factory they're building and the people to work there, but attempting to turn Sparks into the next Detroit by locating all their new products there is nuts, -- and Musk's crazy, but not in that particular way.

Tesla currently owns almost 4.5 square miles at Sparks so they are planning something...
 

  1. 4m4 minutes ago
    $TSLA short interest $11.16 bn, 32.22 mm shares, 25.05$ of float. #Tesla shares shorted declined by -940k over the last week, by -1.4 million shares since Oct 1st, and by -2.5 million shares since The Tweet. Shorts are down $1.88 billion in year-to-date mark-to-market losses

    DrRE1V-XcAAs823.jpg

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That's what's sustained $TSLA during the last two weeks of bad tech stocks - "smart" (it's a relative term) shorty shorts baling out while there's plenty of downward pressure.

What happens now if the Dems win the house and macros reverse sharply? Could be interesting...
 
Firstly, 'not customer' is misleading: the 'entity' language was introduced in Q4/2017, i.e. has been there for almost a year - it covers both customers and other corporate entities Tesla does business with.

Secondly, if the fact that Tesla is owed more money than before and they still managed to generate 1.3 billion dollars in cash from operations is the worst shorts can find in the Q3 10-Q then that's actually very bullish: praise by omission.

I'd also like to note the sudden ironic switch of shorts being very worried about Tesla not as a debtor, but as a creditor! :D
true, but the flip side of that is if that 500m swing was a rebate, then all of a sudden the Q doesnt look very good (300m in profit with 180m from credits, selling the highest margin cars they have with 2 years of backlog).


Time will tell
 

  1. 4m4 minutes ago
    $TSLA short interest $11.16 bn, 32.22 mm shares, 25.05$ of float. #Tesla shares shorted declined by -940k over the last week, by -1.4 million shares since Oct 1st, and by -2.5 million shares since The Tweet. Shorts are down $1.88 billion in year-to-date mark-to-market losses

    DrRE1V-XcAAs823.jpg

    0 replies0 retweets0 likes

Couple of days back he posted:

Additional $TSLA shares shorted data: shares shorted 32.16 million, up 1.72 million shares year-to-date, and down 2.58 million shares since The Tweet. #Tesla $ short interest $10.85 billion, up $1.37 billion year-to-date, and down $1.03 billion since The Tweet.

 
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Elon Musk is a master of cost engineering. If it's cheaper to build a factory in Buffalo than to *desalinate water* or *drive it in trucks across the Rockies*, which it will be, he'll use the lower-cost solution.

And since it obviously isn't....

Farms buy water by the acre foot. An acre of land covered a foot deep by water. 1,2 million litres. 326 thousand gallons The overwhelming majority of water in the desert southwest is not used by people. It's used by farms. In Nevada you usually see prices like $10-35k per acre foot per year for water rights. $32,6k per acre foot - the upper end of the range is ten cents per gallon per year. Even if you pretend it was only used for 20 years, that's half a cent per gallon.

Tesla can buy water rights.

Brackish water can be desalinated. Why don't we desalinate water generally? Because it costs an order of magnitude more than freshwater. But look above at how much freshwater costs in bulk. It's only too expensive relative to existing freshwater sources, and too expensive for farming. It's by no means too expensive for drinking. Current prices for desalination in the US are $2,50-$5 per... you're expecting the word "gallon", right? Nope. Thousand gallons. A quarter of a cent to half a cent per gallon. There's a gigantic brackish lake (Pyramid Lake) just to their north. The salinity is only 1/6th that of seawater, so desalination would be far cheaper. Tesla could afford to divert water into three streams - freshwater to itself, freshwater back to the lake, and concentrated brine to dessication (potentially with mineral extraction) - and actually help decrease the salinity of Pyramid Lake towards historic levels.

Tesla can afford desalination.

Freshwater needs can be averted by recycling gray water. This is a direct water offset; cleaned gray water can be used for washing, toilets, watering, etc (aka, the majority of a person's water usage), and every litre of greywater used in this way can replace a liter of drinking water. As a general rule, treating greywater is much cheaper than desalination.

Tesla can afford to pay for greywater treatment.

Tesla can displace water evaporation at reservoirs with floating solar (even if they don't make them themselves, many companies do). Tesla can pay farmers to allow them to install well-spaced solar panels as shade cloths, which not only saves water, but for some crops can even increase (not decrease) production. Tesla can install rooftop water collection on Gigafactory. There's literally hundreds of different ways Tesla can get water for fractions of a penny per gallon.

Do I really need to keep going? Water is not and will not be an issue. Want me to get specific? Look downstream on the Truckee River, starting at Fernley, or upstream at Sparks. Note the farms on the river. Tesla could buy them with pocket change. Tesla replants native vegetation, and then gains the water rights from the Truckee River. And now Tesla has enough water for a small city. Because, to reiterate, farms use vastly more water than people. And simultaneously, fertilizer discharges into Pyramid Lake (a concern of the EPA) drop.

Yes, water costs more in desert areas. Anyone shocked? Obviously, anything that costs more is an additional expense on your budget sheet. But let's not act like it's the only one. Tesla wants to power manufacturing, for example, 100% with solar. January insolation in Sparks is several times higher than in Buffalo, and thus the panel costs would be several times higher in Buffalo. And I guarantee you, electricity costs for Tesla are far higher than their water costs. Also, land is more expensive in Buffalo, and it's (obviously) far further from the Fremont plant.
 
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