The miles displayed is how Tesla tracks how many free miles of Supercharging you have left though, correct? For those with free SC miles to use.
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Ugh. 36 minutes to charge 110mi at a Supercharger (1.5 hours including drive of 24 miles roundtrip)
- Thread starter SYLotusElise
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No. I never bring percent battery remaining into my logic, just deal in miles remaining. I know how my normal driving and the specific conditions of a trip will impact the normal EPA estimate and adjust accordingly. Much easier and more simple than starting with battery condition to determine range. Each to his own.
Other than the "stick your head in the sand" aspect, which does have merit, I can't get why people think % is so much more specific and consistent and represents some precise amount of energy. It doesn't. The amount of energy represented in that changes weekly and yearly. Since it's a ratio, it's based on two different numbers that can both change. The denominator is how much possible total energy the battery could hold, which continues to move over the years as the battery loses capacity. At least the rated miles is only based on one number (energy), scaled by a constant.
EPA estimates are at like an average speed of ~40mph or 45 mph. Slow way down and you'll likely be much closer to EPA estimates.
I've probably been close to 300 or more miles in my Model Y when doing 30 to 35 mph (obviously with no headwind, freezing temps, or rain). It's possible to get there, just the tests are very outdated, even the updated ones. It would make way more sense to use a "highway" test of a constant 70 mph or 60 mph to 75 mph test. The "high speed" test is more of a freeway with traffic levels that are changing with slow downs and speed ups and a "lower" average speed than most long distance driving.
How Does The EPA Calculate Electric Car Range? - CleanTechnica
There’s one statistic to rule them all when it comes to comparing electric vehicles: range. Range gets headlines. It earns automakers bragging rights, or gives their competitors mocking rights. Range is what determines whether or not an electric vehicle will fit into someone’s lifestyle.
cleantechnica.com
To me the "EPA Highway" is much closer to inner city freeway test. I don't think that is as helpful as a slightly elevated city test (maybe target 30 mph average, not 19.5 mph) and faster highway (maybe 70 mph average with a range of 60 to 80 mph during the test). This should give a realistic city driving (or you do better, no one complains about that) and a closer to realistic interstate travel range (which lets face it, that's what people care about, 200 miles along interstates heading to family at 70 mph). Between those would be your large city/heavy traffic highway range and could be estimated by the owner by knowing it's faster than the city test but they never actually travel "highway" speeds because of traffic.
A lot of youtubers do a very good job of trying to do highway range tests at 65, 70, or 75 mph, but those are all real world with unique cars (tire pressures, loads, clean/dirty, etc etc), unique drivers (different styles, even if they say they try to drive "normal"), and vastly different environment conditions (weather, wind, sun intensity, road temp, etc). It would be so easy for Tesla to conduct these tests in house in a controlled manner and then publish "Typical range" next to EPA range and have a toggle for city (~30 mph) and high speed (~70). I'm sure Tesla even has pretty solid data where they could add an additional toggle for "Cold Weather Typical" which just applies a factor to those two results to show a realistic winter range for 30F or lower areas. They certainly would be wildly lower than all the other guys, but I honestly think they could generate good word of mouth, good youtube/car mag reviews, and be much more helpful to customers when everyone confirms "hey, what you see on the Tesla site is totally what you actually will get, maybe better!"
The problem with using mileage is it’s based on the epa official test where the average mph is around 50 mph. For my M3 that’s 245WH/mi. I can hit that, but I’d have to drive extremely slowly. It absolutely does *NOT* take into effect previous driving. You can verify this with the energy app. The energy app *WILL* take either the last 5/15/30 (selectable) miles you have driven and give you expected range based on that previous 5/10/30 mile distance. The energy displays real world consumption over the past X miles so it includes temperature which affects battery efficiency as well as personal comfort system use (heat/ac), terrain such as hills, environmental conditions such as rain, personal factors such as speed and how deeply you press the pedal, all of which which the displayed range simply does not.
Watching the energy app for a few weeks will really give you insight into your specific range per percentage for your environment and then it becomes soberingingly easy to understand. The EPA derived one that Tesla presents is crap.
Watching the energy app for a few weeks will really give you insight into your specific range per percentage for your environment and then it becomes soberingingly easy to understand. The EPA derived one that Tesla presents is crap.
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Besides calling it in, it also helps to report it on Plugshare, besides looking there first.
I go through the activity feed in Plugshare and do sometimes see people report their experiences (good and bad) with Tesla Superchargers in Nor Cal.
Ok, at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You I see someone on Jul 24, 2021 says "Lots of issues with these chargers. Some don't work, some are charging extremely slow, less than 30 kw. 1D works well." If he personally encountered probs with one not working, he should've checked at least once with a could not charge, equipment broken followed by a successful one.
Per Detailed Test Information, test details, the average speeds of the test cycles are 21.2 mph, 48.3 and 48.4 mph. Even the "high speed" test which hits a max speed of 80 mph (average is 48.4 mph) has 4 stops and 7% of the 9.9 minutes is spent idling.
The other cycles have top speeds of 54.8 to 60 mph.
The highway test has no stops and no idling, but only a top speed of 60 mph and an average speed of 48.3 mph.
Ya, when was the last time you averaged 48.3 mph on a interstate highway on a 100+ mile road trip... honestly I can't even remember the last time I was below 60mph on a route like that....
Tesla owners could get $625 each in class action settlement over battery throttling
Tesla agreed to pay $1.5 million to settle claims that its over-the-air software update limited battery voltage, therefore range, in some Model S sedans.
www.cnbc.com
Mrbrock
Active Member
I'm sure Tesla can model that and apply a correction factor without any issue. The absolutely know what drag they see at 75 mph, they know exactly how much energy the motors take to keep the car at that speed, and they know how much power all the extra bits draw. They could dial in a very close to accurate "Real World Range" rating for highway and for bad weather or winter weather and post it on the page. They might have to keep the EPA numbers to be official, but they could easily have it on the more detailed about page for each model and just have something like this...
Expected Real Range constant 75 mph: 205 miles
Expect Real Range City in winter weather: 174 miles
*Real Range is calculated from a 90% battery to 10% battery level to mimic typical charging habits
That would be so incredibly honest for them and customers would know exactly what they should expect to get. I can't tell you how many new customers I talk to that are pretty shocked that the 400+ mile range of the S is actually like 340 when on the highway for a road trip. They also are surprised when after 80% is takes "forever" to get to 100%. They quickly learn to drive like the rest of us (supercharge to 80% and then leave). That means their range is more like 285 miles instead of 400. It just paints a much more accurate real world picture for everyone and would "change the industry" just like they changed the car salesman type image. The problem would be instead of a big flashy 400 miles they would be showing 285 or 300 and someone else would come out and have 350 miles and look "better" than Tesla...
Mrbrock
Active Member
It has nothing to do with Tesla wanting to do that. The EPA needs to define rules for testing that include those parameters. Tesla with do whatever they can "within the rules" to get the number as high as possible to sell more cars, sometimes going a little outside the lines if they don't get caught (see VW diesels). The rules allow them to use some factor that has been proven that Tesla uses one that returns a higher number compared to other manufacturers with similarly efficient designs.
But Tesla COULD do that. The EPA would be fine with Tesla publishing a realistic 90%-10% range at 75mph as long as it wasn’t higher than official EPA cycle results, which spoiler alert, it certainly wouldn’t be.
You should get your car checked by Tesla service. That’s not normal. I routinely drive from virgins beach to Washington DC and usually arrive with 5-10 percent left from a full charge. That’s about 205 miles... I would expect you to be able to squeeze another 20 miles out. Perhaps you are loosing range while the car is parked. With sentry mode and cabinet overheat with AC I loose about 15 miles a day...
Being honest. Bring know as customer first. Getting good press and word of mouth how they constantly hit or beat the estimated range even on road trips.
I mean why doesn’t Musk have his sales staff get commission on every sale or tell them to push hard up selling features… Musk hated “car salesman” and wanted to be different. It’s sad he doesn’t feel the same about setting expectations for range.
As soon as other manufacturers do that I’ll agree with you. “Being honest” doesn’t help Tesla any...
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