[UK] ‘Highland’ order discussion

[Lord Farquad]

I buckled. I ordered a LR RWD yesterday. A blue one with a tow bar. I don't especially need a tow bar, but I figured I'll be keeping this car for an eternity and want to be prepared for an imaginary trailer tent which I presently have no intention of ever buying.

My rationale is I can realise the best part of 10k selling the car I've already got, and there's potential to reduce next year's tax bill as it's a business asset. In the medium term it's not actually going to cost me all that much.

It hasn't got quite the performance of the twin-motored AWD LR, but tbh I never really wanted that. The extra range is a plus, but tbh had it not been for the 0%apr rug being pulled on the McRegular M3 I'd likely have gone for one of those.

Have I made a terrible mistake? I dunno, time will tell. If it transpires that I have within the next 3wks or so I guess it'll only cost me the deposit if I bail and run.

Good for you. I think they’re a really nice spec. Plenty of performance for the road.

 

[Adopado]

I buckled. I ordered a LR RWD yesterday. A blue one with a tow bar. I don't especially need a tow bar, but I figured I'll be keeping this car for an eternity and want to be prepared for an imaginary trailer tent which I presently have no intention of ever buying.

My rationale is I can realise the best part of 10k selling the car I've already got, and there's potential to reduce next year's tax bill as it's a business asset. In the medium term it's not actually going to cost me all that much.

It hasn't got quite the performance of the twin-motored AWD LR, but tbh I never really wanted that. The extra range is a plus, but tbh had it not been for the 0%apr rug being pulled on the McRegular M3 I'd likely have gone for one of those.

Have I made a terrible mistake? I dunno, time will tell. If it transpires that I have within the next 3wks or so I guess it'll only cost me the deposit if I bail and run.

It’s interesting to note that even a small general purpose trailer has a much larger carrying capacity than the bed of a gigantic pickup truck… and you don’t need to burden your vehicle with it when you don’t need to carry stuff. The Model 3 tows like a champ.

 

[Durzel]

I keep umming and ahhing about this, not in a particularly serious way, but enough to distract me. Would be interested to hear some thoughts...

I got a trade in estimate on my 2020 M3P (6k miles) on 21/07, it was £32,400 then. Did it again today, it's £29.900. Both of those quotes assume FSD is included, which I would want to transfer if I were to get another Tesla now, so who knows how much less it would be.

Looking at the remaining inventory cars - M3P works out at £406/month (0% APR) with £10k down, 47 month term. My car brand new was £60,790 (after grant!), and is about 41 months old, which works out as ~£753/month in depreciation, per Tesla's trade in price. That's actually quite painful to read, now that I've typed it out! It's arguable whether the car would continue to depreciate to the same extent, but with Highland imminent and the car already being behind in some respects, I have no reason to suspect it won't. It's dropped £2500 in a month by Tesla's calcs.

£0 down on a 47 month term is "only" £619 a month, still less than what my car has technically depreciated by.

If I were to keep my car I'd want to get the Tesla extended warranty for 4 years, which I think is £2500. The extended warranty isn't as bulletproof as the standard warranty, notably excluding lights, aircon, "wear and tear", etc. Lights (condensation) are the main warranty issue I've had with my car. so I have that bill pending if I decide to keep my car, whereas I wouldn't if I bought a new one now.

On the one hand I keep thinking it's a terrible idea to get a new Tesla now, with Highland and however many changes imminent. On the other hand the Tesla of late is all about taking things away, not giving any more than they have to. I can't really imagine a world where Highland comes along as a dramatic uplift spec wise in terms of what the Model 3 is - not when Tesla are selling the car as it is now without too much difficulty. It could quite easily just be a very mild interior and exterior refresh, and possibly just have things taken away (e.g. stalks).

So that's my quandary.. would welcome any thoughts

 

[BushtrimmmerJr]

My wife and I picked up a M3LR a few weeks ago on the 0% to replace the lease car that was due back early next year.
I’ve loved the M3 since we got it and while I’m sure the highland version will have some additional features that are nice to have, I’m happy with an updated version of my old 2020 car (The fit/finish is night and day).
I’ve seen the rumours and pictures of the new version and it’s not different enough for me to outweigh the 0% interest saving.

I do slightly wish however that I’d waited a fortnight and picked up the M3P as it’s now less a month than the LR we’ve got (the higher final payment would’ve just encouraged a swap at the end more than the LR. That is only a slight niggle though as I don’t get to use the full speed that often anyway (4.2 or whatever it is to 60 is still pretty nippy).

 

[MrBadger]

Looking at the remaining inventory cars - M3P works out at £406/month (0% APR) with £10k down, 47 month term.

What do you have at end of 47 months? Nothing, a car, a promise to buy a car?

 

[Durzel]

What do you have at end of 47 months? Nothing, a car, a promise to buy a car?

Nothing, unless you paid ~£25.5k to buy the car.

It only really works at all if I keep and/or grow the capital I'd be releasing over that term in a meaningful way.

Under the normal run of things buying a car outright is supposed to be the cheapest way to own it, but at ~£753/month depreciation I'm not sure that's played out here. That is mostly because Tesla is unique with the size of their margins.. they're selling the same car now as I've got (albeit with black interior vs white) for over £10k less than I paid for it 3.5 years ago.

It's less skewed when not looking at inventory cars, of course.

 

[pdk42]

I keep umming and ahhing about this, not in a particularly serious way, but enough to distract me. Would be interested to hear some thoughts...

I got a trade in estimate on my 2020 M3P (6k miles) on 21/07, it was £32,400 then. Did it again today, it's £29.900. Both of those quotes assume FSD is included, which I would want to transfer if I were to get another Tesla now, so who knows how much less it would be.

Looking at the remaining inventory cars - M3P works out at £406/month (0% APR) with £10k down, 47 month term. My car brand new was £60,790 (after grant!), and is about 41 months old, which works out as ~£753/month in depreciation, per Tesla's trade in price. That's actually quite painful to read, now that I've typed it out! It's arguable whether the car would continue to depreciate to the same extent, but with Highland imminent and the car already being behind in some respects, I have no reason to suspect it won't. It's dropped £2500 in a month by Tesla's calcs.

£0 down on a 47 month term is "only" £619 a month, still less than what my car has technically depreciated by.

If I were to keep my car I'd want to get the Tesla extended warranty for 4 years, which I think is £2500. The extended warranty isn't as bulletproof as the standard warranty, notably excluding lights, aircon, "wear and tear", etc. Lights (condensation) are the main warranty issue I've had with my car. so I have that bill pending if I decide to keep my car, whereas I wouldn't if I bought a new one now.

On the one hand I keep thinking it's a terrible idea to get a new Tesla now, with Highland and however many changes imminent. On the other hand the Tesla of late is all about taking things away, not giving any more than they have to. I can't really imagine a world where Highland comes along as a dramatic uplift spec wise in terms of what the Model 3 is - not when Tesla are selling the car as it is now without too much difficulty. It could quite easily just be a very mild interior and exterior refresh, and possibly just have things taken away (e.g. stalks).

So that's my quandary.. would welcome any thoughts

Unless you’re unhappy with your current car, all the logic says keep it. The car depreciation curve is almost exponential decay so the rate of loss will keep reducing. You’ve lived through the worst part already. Honestly, a 2020 M3P with 6k miles in anyone’s estimation has to be worth more than £30k. Take an 8 year view and the sums look much better.

 

[pdk42]

On the other hand the Tesla of late is all about taking things away, not giving any more than they have to. I can't really imagine a world where Highland comes along as a dramatic uplift spec wise in terms of what the Model 3 is - not when Tesla are selling the car as it is now without too much difficulty. It could quite easily just be a very mild interior and exterior refresh, and possibly just have things taken away (e.g. stalks).

Let’s wait and see. I suspect Highland will add some nice things but take others away. Loss of stalks would be a huge downer for me and might even be a deal-breaker for a replacement when the time comes. No parking sensors is likewise a huge negative.

But the two big negatives for me of my current Model 3 are the road noise and overly-firm suspension. If Highland addresses those then I could be tempted. But it seems the new model is still basically the same car - a LCI facelift only, not a new platform; and I suspect the problems with road noise are inherent in the design.

 

[AndyFov]

£6k miles?

I'd keep the current car, as if you're feeling the urge to cement such a heavy loss (£5 per mile?) after 3yrs, the same will likely happen again in 2026, and you'll find yourself trapped in a cycle of giving Tesla £10k of your net income per annum ad infinitum.

I can only justify buying mine as the plan is to just keep it for the very long term. 100k miles over ten years and I'm looking at a depreciation cost per mile less than a tenth of yours, and that assumes my car is worth nothing at all in 2033.

 

[Durzel]

Let’s wait and see. I suspect Highland will add some nice things but take others away. Loss of stalks would be a huge downer for me and might even be a deal-breaker for a replacement when the time comes. No parking sensors is likewise a huge negative.

But the two big negatives for me of my current Model 3 are the road noise and overly-firm suspension. If Highland addresses those then I could be tempted. But it seems the new model is still basically the same car - a LCI facelift only, not a new platform; and I suspect the problems with road noise are inherent in the design.

I think loss of stalks is very likely. Reduces cost for Tesla, they can make the refreshed 3/Y share the same UI as the S/X in terms of changing gears, etc. There's no downside to them doing this. I expect a redesigned steering wheel with haptic buttons ala S/X to follow, but I'll be surprised if it's a yoke simply because there's no driver binnacle (I don't expect this to happen due to costs) being obscured.

I agree that road noise probably isn't improved greatly. I don't expect radical designs in the windows/shuts/seals, none of the reported Highland photos suggest any design changes along those lines.

Who knows - maybe matrix lights will actually do something on this model, only ~3 years after they started to be fitted

 

[Durzel]

£6k miles?

I'd keep the current car, as if you're feeling the urge to cement such a heavy loss (£5 per mile?) after 3yrs, the same will likely happen again in 2026, and you'll find yourself trapped in a cycle of giving Tesla £10k of your net income per annum ad infinitum.

I can only justify buying mine as the plan is to just keep it for the very long term. 100k miles over ten years and I'm looking at a depreciation cost per mile less than a tenth of yours, and that assumes my car is worth nothing at all in 2033.

Yeah, that is a good point. I went from commuting 800 miles a month when I ordered the car, to basically zero overnight, due to COVID lockdowns and subsequent changes in company attitudes towards WFH.

In retrospect I should have probably sold the car shortly after buying it, but it was right at the start of COVID so everything was unknown then. I should've also sold it back when used prices were nuts (I was offered £55,700 back in March 2022 by Tesla!).. but c'est la vie, that ship has sailed.

The finance options Tesla give have 10k miles/year as a minimum. Obviously that's way more than I'd ever need.

 

[Marsh_UK]

It just shows how electric car residuals have tanked in a relatively short period of time.

 

[AndyFov]

The perception of the tanking is exacerbated by the artificially sustained high prices during the post-covid semiconductor shortage.

Without that we'd have seen more normal depreciation for EVs.

We paid £10k for a 3yr old Leaf. 3 years and 30,000 miles later WBAC reckoned it was worth £9k, 6 months after that they were saying £3k. Funny old times we've lived through what with the 'rona and Putin's shenanighans.

 

[JP1889]

Well just failed my PCP application....British Gas have screwed me over with 3x missed payments on 17th July despite me moving house and closing the account down fully paid up. They've quickly admitted the error and will rectify it with the credit agencies but could take 1-2 months to reflect. Unbelievable, fingers crossed they get them to disappear before end of August

Did you appeal your credit refusal? BH rectified their 'computer says no' decision with me in 20 minutes. Credit agenices can get stuff incredibly wrong.

 

[JP1889]

That's what I've ended up at yes. I've used some of my ISA allowance already so didn't want to complicate the calculations with a combination of some taxable and some not. Sticking the full amount into the 2x ISA gave me the following figures :

• Downpayment = £0 (no point paying a deposit when you can earn interest on it)
• £40k into 5.5% 4 year fixed ISA (United Trust currently)
• 48 x £524 leaving a balance of £15,128 (£25,152 paid in total)
• £40k ISA will now be at £52,628 at this point, earning £12,628 over the 4 years with compound interest,.
• Find £2500 to clear off the finance.will be

This way, your now 4 year old 40k mile Model 3 SR will have only cost you £27,652 out of your own pocket.

If the car is worth less than £15k come 48 months hand it back, if its worth more then bonus money.

Thanks you made my mind up to pull the trigger on a M3RWD. I bought on the last day of 0% finance. Ive stuck the balloon payment into a 4yrs fixed ISA

 

[JP1889]

That's what I've ended up at yes. I've used some of my ISA allowance already so didn't want to complicate the calculations with a combination of some taxable and some not. Sticking the full amount into the 2x ISA gave me the following figures :

• Downpayment = £0 (no point paying a deposit when you can earn interest on it)
• £40k into 5.5% 4 year fixed ISA (United Trust currently)
• 48 x £524 leaving a balance of £15,128 (£25,152 paid in total)
• £40k ISA will now be at £52,628 at this point, earning £12,628 over the 4 years with compound interest,.
• Find £2500 to clear off the finance.

This way, your now 4 year old 40k mile Model 3 SR will have only cost you £27,652 out of your own pocket.

If the car is worth less than £15k come 48 months hand it back, if its worth more then bonus money.

You made my mind up to pull the trigger on 0% PCP M3RWD.
Thanks.
£40k off inventory with referral code.
I broke this years £20,000 ISA allowance into cash 3 pots.
£12265 balloon payment over 4yr fixed at 5.26% earns £2791 interest. That pays off it off in full
Put 5260 on 3ys fx at 5.56% earns £927 interest. Earns enough to pay all of 4th yr monthly payments.
Put balance of this years tax free allowance into £2475 on 2yrs fx at 5.61 earn £285.
Each maturing ISA and the balance of £20k go into a 90/120/180 day notice accounts to be drawn down monthly Currently 5.45 to 5.59% variable
So in total I expect to get at least £5400 to £6000 interest
For me in my circumstances, it doesn't make waiting for a Highland or even buying second hand sensible.

 

[AndyFov]

That was my rationale. 0% apr makes the LR £9k cheaper than it's meant to be,

 

[Durzel]

That's what I've ended up at yes. I've used some of my ISA allowance already so didn't want to complicate the calculations with a combination of some taxable and some not. Sticking the full amount into the 2x ISA gave me the following figures :

• Downpayment = £0 (no point paying a deposit when you can earn interest on it)
• £40k into 5.5% 4 year fixed ISA (United Trust currently)
• 48 x £524 leaving a balance of £15,128 (£25,152 paid in total)
• £40k ISA will now be at £52,628 at this point, earning £12,628 over the 4 years with compound interest,.
• Find £2500 to clear off the finance.

This way, your now 4 year old 40k mile Model 3 SR will have only cost you £27,652 out of your own pocket.

If the car is worth less than £15k come 48 months hand it back, if its worth more then bonus money.

I’m probably being dumb but how are you supposed to put £40k in an ISA when the yearly tax free limit is £20k? It’s not £20k per establishment that you invest it with?

(again, I’m probably being stupid and missing something)

 

[Mrklaw]

Also doesn’t thisnmethidb(while efficient) rely on you being able to afford almost twice the value of the car? £40k in an isa and the monthly payments for the pcp?

 

[AndyFov]

I came up with the £40k in an ISA idea a few pages back - but said "if my wife and I put £20k each in."

The point was to illustrate the value in the 0% apr deal, and show how much better it is than buying outright on day 1. If you've got the cash to buy outright, don't. Let your cash work for you instead.