[UK] Model S/X LHD Discussion

[Foucault]

They actually had the Lotus Eletre at Fully Charged North. It’s a big car, probably about the same size as a Range Rover, though not as tall. The interior is very nice and understand from the review in Car Magazine it is carbon neutral (not that the car will be for a bit as it is made in China). I don’t think it is really a model X competitor as really only a 4/5 seater. All cars come with air suspension, matrix LED headlights and a HUD. Even though I don’t really like SUVs, I did think the Eletre was nice.

For those who don’t like SUVs, the Lotus saloon on the same platform, which may be called Envya, is due to debut at the Munich motor show in September. After that Lotus will debut a smaller SUV, which will be about the same size as a model Y, and a sports car, though that may be delayed as was originally a joint venture with Alpine, but Lotus and Renault have decided to go there separate ways on this one.

 

[Foucault]

Forgot to mention that Eletre is level 4 autonomous and uses LiDAR as well as cameras, though the functionality hasn’t yet been switched on.

 

[Mrklaw]

Forgot to mention that Eletre is level 4 autonomous and uses LiDAR as well as cameras, though the functionality hasn’t yet been switched on.

then its not level 4. They can say what they like but until they turn it on its the same as the Tesla vapourware

 

[yessuz]

but have you seen it's charging capability from Bjorn?!

ffs - it holds 200 kw @70%

it is level 3 autonomous btw

and by price, at 100k GBP - look like direct competitor to Model X. so model X in UK LHD is DOA

 

[Mrklaw]

etron had a flat curve - 150kw to 80% then fell off a cliff? Partly that worries me regarding longevity, but if they have a big top buffer maybe its not so bad? and a 100kwh battery probably helps holding a higher state of charge for longer while still being a reasonable C rate.

 

[browellm]

Actually seen an Eletre on the road a couple of weeks ago. Whether it was a review car or something, I'm not sure. Lovely looking thing from afar. If I had a hundred grand to drop on a car, it would definitely be on the list to look at.

Idly messing about with the configurator is today's shoving your face against the showroom window

 

[Adopado]

The interior is very nice and understand from the review in Car Magazine it is carbon neutral (not that the car will be for a bit as it is made in China).

The only way cars can be described as "carbon neutral" is by some dubious offsetting ... and you can make up some numbers for that to account for wherever it's manufactured. (Maybe someone will claim that their new palm oil plantation is sucking up the required amount of CO2 ... eek .. It's a murky business!)

 

[FastLaneJB]

I'd not considered this car but the reviews are so good it's going right to the top of my potential list. Need to see one and drive it of course so won't just randomly pre-order.

The range is interesting as on the two non-R models it's quite high but caveated that you need to take the 20 inch wheels. Think it's just a case of larger wheels and a lot of rubber bringing it down vs a Tesla. The charging speed is very impressive though.

No idea when they'll deliver or what the order book so far is? Hopefully not like a Range Rover where if you order now you might get it 2026 if you are lucky.

Oh and considering all you get with it, the tech and quality. I think it's priced very aggressively vs the competition.

 

[MrBadger]

Tesla have a stand at Goodwood FOS, along with other electric car manufacturers. I think it’s in the Electric Avenue section, (close to main bridge) and is next/adjacent to MG and Polestar. My Map doesn’t stretch to what other manufacturers are there, but wouldn’t surprise me if Lotus have a presence too. I’ll get a better look later today.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The charging speed is very impressive though.

Yes I thought that too, Bjorn's video showed it faster than eTron to 80% (although dunno if you would be likely to find a fast enough stall?)

 

[12Pack]

I'd not considered this car but the reviews are so good it's going right to the top of my potential list. Need to see one and drive it of course so won't just randomly pre-order.

The range is interesting as on the two non-R models it's quite high but caveated that you need to take the 20 inch wheels. Think it's just a case of larger wheels and a lot of rubber bringing it down vs a Tesla. The charging speed is very impressive though.

No idea when they'll deliver or what the order book so far is? Hopefully not like a Range Rover where if you order now you might get it 2026 if you are lucky.

Oh and considering all you get with it, the tech and quality. I think it's priced very aggressively vs the competition.

Will follow the range tests with interest, especially the ones Car & Driver runs at constant 75 mph which where Cd kicks in. I have one of the few MS Ludicrous cars with the Plus battery - effortless 400 miles in summer. Charging speed means little to me as I simply charge overnight and stop where we want to along
the way - and not always at shoddy services locations.

Is it correct that the Eletre quotes surprisingly less cargo volume even than an MS (688 litres > 1,532 litres vs. MS 745 litres > 1645 litres)?

 

[DJP31]

I have one of the few MS Ludicrous cars with the Plus battery - effortless 400 miles

Sadly it's going to be a long time before there's anything out there to replace this

 

[FastLaneJB]

Will follow the range tests with interest, especially the ones Car & Driver runs at constant 75 mph which where Cd kicks in. I have one of the few MS Ludicrous cars with the Plus battery - effortless 400 miles in summer. Charging speed means little to me as I simply charge overnight and stop where we want to along
the way - and not always at shoddy services locations.

Is it correct that the Eletre quotes surprisingly less cargo volume even than an MS (688 litres > 1,532 litres vs. MS 745 litres > 1645 litres)?

Yeah I'm going to guess the cargo space is it doesn't have a big or as big underfloor space. Not sure I have seen a video showing it has any in the boot at all actually.

It's clearly not going to get to Tesla levels of efficiency but I suspect it to be reasonable considering the amount of rubber it has. Also got to wonder about power draw of things like the infotainment as it's using Unreal Engine apparently with 2 SOC's. Also has quite a lot of sensors including Lidar, guessing that also is going to be drawing more than Tesla with their just camera or at most camera and radar cars.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I do wonder how the competitors shape up on the software side. Is there much objective comparison published comparing capabilities? Maybe the only way is to ask someone who has owned both, but it seems to me that Tesla has a big lead in terms of features and efficiency of the software - both for entertainment and drivetrain - not withstanding the obvious total failure to fix the wipers etc.

Quite a lot to have to get used to, switching to a different brand, let alone any frustrations that might then be encountered (might be worlds better of course ...)

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I do wonder how the competitors shape up on the software side. Is there much objective comparison published comparing capabilities? Maybe the only way is to ask someone who has owned both, but it seems to me that Tesla has a big lead in terms of features and efficiency of the software - both for entertainment and drivetrain - not withstanding the obvious total failure to fix the wipers etc.

Quite a lot to have to get used to, switching to a different brand, let alone any frustrations that might then be encountered (might be worlds better of course ...)

I am amazed at how efficient Teslas are - my MY regularly hovers around 250wh/m whereas you look at cars like the iX and they seem to struggle to get close to 330wh/m which was where my old MS was. I imagine that’s as much motor design as it is software.

But I can’t say there is anything about Teslas user interactivity software I’d really put ahead of the competition.

Infotainment - built in Spotify and Apple Music are ticks on the feature list but that’s not unique anymore and the implementation is clunky in places. Radio is no better. No option to store your own music and if you use a USB stick, no album art etc.

Nav - no Birds Eye view, you can turn on satellite images which isn’t unique but do that on some of the other brands and you get a perspective view of the roads or a simpler building annotation view (like a regular map but with representations of significant buildings). Then add multiple route options with cheapest, most efficient etc as well as time. The Tesla tick box is linked to range predictions but I’ve not spent enough time in an EV version of another brand, although a friends BMW i8 about 5 years ago had a mode that would automatically manage the battery so you could drive on electric when you reached your destination, so even back then they were doing whole route analysis

General controls / the less said the better about automatic headlights, wipers, adaptive headlights, etc.

App - Tesla has an edge but I’ve found lots of features available.

Toys and games - Tesla win but personally I never use them - if I’m charging I just use my mobile phone or get out the car and go for a stroll

So I’m struggling to see any significant areas where Tesla smashes the competition. 99% of software updates are bug fixes or meddling with existing features or adding something the competition might already have, they do do updates better than anyone else, I just get a sense they use that as a justification for shipping incomplete things in the first place. The whole UI has been a bit of a dogs dinner with steering wheels controls being praised which seems pretty bizarre to me (I welcome the change, but it’s a ‘about bl@@dy time’ rather than ‘Tesla innovate yet again’)

 

[WannabeOwner]

built in Spotify and Apple Music are ticks on the feature list but that’s not unique anymore

The part I am interested for comparison is all the minor bits. Profile saving, all the options that are supported (such as whether you want the car to navigate to work each time you get in) probably a poor example, but I think all those fiddly-bits stack up. I have no idea how the competition compares, but I can imagine losing a whole bunch of fiddly-bits would be an annoyance (even if the lights and wipers was fixed!)

Maybe I've just got too used to it and it feels comfortable - which must be what the marketeers want

 

[MrBadger]

Maybe I've just got too used to it and it feels comfortable - which must be what the marketeers want

1 Make it work
2 Make it easy
3 Form an emotional attachment

Tesla doing things differently again

 

[gangzoom]

Sadly it's going to be a long time before there's anything out there to replace this

All this 'concern' about range anxiety. We are literally about to set off to Europe in our small battery Model X with near 70k miles of degredation. ANY new EV onsale today is fine for most people .

 

[12Pack]

A bit repetitive from my side, but I am looking for in order of priority:
0. RHD
1. Range to enable a full day's drive with only overnight stops (not a fan of crowded services locations - a nice pub for stops please)
2. Space for 4-5 adults + luggage
3. Performance out of the ordinary + elegant design + saloon please
4. @WannabeOwner 's "fiddly bits"

So far its the non-existent RHD refreshed MS - or my current MS

 

[WannabeOwner]

We are literally about to set off to Europe in our small battery Model X with near 70k miles of degredation. ANY new EV onsale today is fine for most people

Even today that leg from Calais to Senlis is a reasonable hop (150 miles) and in a small-battery-X ABRP plans for a 90% charge, at Calais, to arrive with 10% - unless you are going to drive like a turtle