[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

[EVNow]

Hmmm, I am just a little baffled by that statement. If so, why did you buy a Tesla and drive it by thinking you don't feel as safe as in another car? Maybe I am just assuming you have a Tesla, but you don't?

I guess I feel safer in a Tesla than a Ford Pinto

The fact is any decent car today (i.e. rated well) is safer than a decent car from a decade ago.

ps : Interesting fact. People kept telling Lutz they need to bring back EV1 - his answer was simple. It wouldn't pass today's crash tests.

 

[Needsdecaf]

My course is an amalgam of ethical issues in the biotech/pharma areas, but the Pinto (and Crown Vic later) cases illustrate how some businesses do their financial calculations with little regard for human life if it's cheaper. Of course, we see this in pharma/biotech, too. For a real eye-opener about the generic drug industry in India, check out Bottle of Lies by Katherine Eban.

Yeah. The other thing is that hind sight is always 20/20 and those engineers, if I recall, didn't fully understand the problem until it was too late. This was 20 years ago, but I remember reading some very enlightening first hand accounts.


In the meantime, living in Houston and driving a Tesla has prompted me to want to carry a cheat sheet on what Teslas can and can't do. Sheesh, I've never had so many people ask about the car in 2 years.

 

[Darmie]

Maybe I watched too many Forensic Files episodes. What if the whole thing was staged to look like an accident and the 2 bodies were dead before? Then the driver lit the car on fire? I know, crazy supposition but anything is possible these days.

Truth will come out but will we know. It already appears to be a coverup of truth to keep the good constable under the good light. Let's do a 3sec google search.

Dashcam catches testy exchange after Harris County Pct. 4 Constable pulled over for running red light

Exclusive video shows what happened after a sheriff's deputy stopped Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman.

abc13.com

Deputy constable in Texas destroys 21,500 pieces of evidence, forcing authorities to dismiss 150 cases and review another 1,000

Houston, we have a problem. A messy one. A deputy constable in Texas destroyed more than 20,000 pieces of evidence while cleaning out a crammed property room, Harris County District Attorney Devon …

www.nydailynews.com

I live less than a mile from where this happened. I'm not familiar with these specific roads as this is a gated community, but I know that the road type is the same as where I live.

The roads are unmarked concrete. The speed limit on this road was likely 30 MPH

There is no way that any AP features would have been able to engage on this road.

No one would be making any Autopilot comments if it wasn't for the good constable's remarks.

In that neighborhood I 100% guarantee there is surveillance footage of the street. Now whether the Police have it or not is another story.

Let's hope the police don't have it. If the good constable has any evidence, based on past experience, it may be destroyed.

Deputy constable in Texas destroys 21,500 pieces of evidence, forcing authorities to dismiss 150 cases and review another 1,000

Houston, we have a problem. A messy one. A deputy constable in Texas destroyed more than 20,000 pieces of evidence while cleaning out a crammed property room, Harris County District Attorney Devon …

www.nydailynews.com

yes indeed. I was thinking more like a pound of salt Too much "hear-say" stuff going around. I'll believe it when it is proven.

Agree, and the hear-say started just as the media first showed up.

Well, that person says he/she has an informer with first hand knowledge.

For eg., if the video is from a security camera from one of the nearby houses - someone in that house contacted this person, who created a new twitter account and posted the information. The informer gave the information to the Police who aren't releasing it - so the informer/twitter person think it is to protect the Constable.

There are several possibilities though.
- The informer is lying to the twitter person
- The informer is truthful, but the twitter person is not being truthful
- Both informer and twitter person are truthful
- The informer and the Twitter person are the same
- There is no informer, the twitter person is lying about the having special information

Great possibilities. Good stuff to think about.
Oh, and agree that someone is being protected in this and for what reason? Why create the FUD? Was there some pay for play involved? My wife ask how.
I said it would be down right impossible to connect any of the logistics. It's only after 20 years or so do we see a documentary showing how the dots connect and who was the interested party.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Truth will come out but will we know. It already appears to be a coverup of truth to keep the good constable under the good light. Let's do a 3sec google search.

Dashcam catches testy exchange after Harris County Pct. 4 Constable pulled over for running red light

Exclusive video shows what happened after a sheriff's deputy stopped Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman.

abc13.com

Deputy constable in Texas destroys 21,500 pieces of evidence, forcing authorities to dismiss 150 cases and review another 1,000

Houston, we have a problem. A messy one. A deputy constable in Texas destroyed more than 20,000 pieces of evidence while cleaning out a crammed property room, Harris County District Attorney Devon …

www.nydailynews.com

No one would be making any Autopilot comments if it wasn't for the good constable's remarks.

Let's hope the police don't have it. If the good constable has any evidence, based on past experience, it may be destroyed.

Deputy constable in Texas destroys 21,500 pieces of evidence, forcing authorities to dismiss 150 cases and review another 1,000

Houston, we have a problem. A messy one. A deputy constable in Texas destroyed more than 20,000 pieces of evidence while cleaning out a crammed property room, Harris County District Attorney Devon …

www.nydailynews.com

Agree, and the hear-say started just as the media first showed up.

Great possibilities. Good stuff to think about.
Oh, and agree that someone is being protected in this and for what reason? Why create the FUD? Was there some pay for play involved? My wife ask how.
I said it would be down right impossible to connect any of the logistics. It's only after 20 years or so do we see a documentary showing how the dots connect and who was the interested party.

Coverup?

Come on.

 

[EVNow]

New information quoted in the other thread on the crash in the investor section.

Tesla investor car crash thread

It wasn't a 30 MPH crash. They said that if TACC was used it would have only accelerated to 30 MPH in the distance travelled. So being the crash was a higher speed than that proved that it wasn't TACC/AS/AP driving. I hopefully stand corrected...

teslamotorsclub.com

Houston Tesla Crash: Vehicle Recently Purchased Used P100DL, Authorities Don't Want To Release Further Details - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! In past articles about the crash of a Tesla near Houston, I mentioned that I had requested information from Constable Mark Herman about the crash. Today, I received a disappointing response, but did get ...

cleantechnica.com

It was a used Tesla S sold last year on ebay.

Modelo S 2019 Tesla | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Modelo S 2019 Tesla at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

webcache.googleusercontent.com

 

[SMAlset]

The CleanTechnica article was interesting. Had wondered from the start if this was a new owner which apparently was the case. Likely a first time Tesla owner too.

From CleanTechnica (link above in @EVNow ‘s post just above):
“One interesting thing that came from the VIN was that the vehicle was sold on eBay at the end of 2020. In the ad, the seller said the following: “Tesla Model S Performance Model with Ludicrous mode, crazy fast, single owner, see sticker in pictures. Like new. This VIN was just after the refresh that included the longer range battery type and full time suspension…”

This tells us that the vehicle hadn’t been owned by the deceased for very long, and that it was a performance version, the kind that one may want to show off to a friend if they came for a visit.”

 

[JHCCAZ]

The CleanTechnica article was interesting. Had wondered from the start if this was a new owner which apparently was the case. Likely a first time Tesla owner too.

From CleanTechnica (link above in @EVNow ‘s post just above):
“One interesting thing that came from the VIN was that the vehicle was sold on eBay at the end of 2020. In the ad, the seller said the following: “Tesla Model S Performance Model with Ludicrous mode, crazy fast, single owner, see sticker in pictures. Like new. This VIN was just after the refresh that included the longer range battery type and full time suspension…”

This tells us that the vehicle hadn’t been owned by the deceased for very long, and that it was a performance version, the kind that one may want to show off to a friend if they came for a visit.”

Yes, the CleanTechnica article is probably the clearest, best-researched (what used to be called "investigative reporting") and most sensible article I've seen on this incident.

Many of us believe that a launch gone bad is the most straightforward theory, and that the empty driver's seat is consistent with the (only partially known) circumstances of a burning car wedged in trees and brush with exits blocked or inoperable.

Whether or not the men were discussing Autopilot that evening, it would only take a few seconds for a warm-up Ludicrous launch to get them into serious trouble. How many of us have had a brief but poorly-considered action turn scary, often but not always with a lucky avoidance of serious consequences? With cars or power tools or ladders, tree climbing or rushing water, or worst of all, involving your child. I know I have. As it's happening, you just want a do-over of the prior ten seconds, and if you come out OK it leaves you scared, thankful and a little wiser. More cautious for a while, but not immune to the next risky situation.

 

[SMAlset]

News story and video interview a few days back with the original owner of the MS that crashed (KPRC Click2Houston):

Sugar Land man sold Tesla to doctor months before deadly crash

The original owner of the Tesla that crashed in The Woodlands earlier this month killing two people spoke to KPRC 2.

www.click2houston.com

Article said he sold the car to the doctor in January and didn’t meet him as he had a truck pick it up.

 

[CyberGus]

...living in Houston and driving a Tesla has prompted me to want to carry a cheat sheet on what Teslas can and can't do. Sheesh, I've never had so many people ask about the car in 2 years.

Here, print this and put it on your dash. (It's a link to teslamotorsclub.com lol)

 

[SMAlset]

While looking for updates found this news story from KPRC2’s Click2Houston’s site of the 911 calls made on the night of the crash.

‘The car exploded’: 911 calls reveal chilling details of what neighbors saw, heard after fiery Tesla crash near The Woodlands

KPRC 2 obtained the 911 calls from the night a Tesla Model S crashed into a tree in the Carlton Woods subdivision in Spring near The Woodlands.

www.click2houston.com

Apart from the call transcripts, found this info about the car doors that were not on the car’s frame in any of the published photos that we saw in the press:

“KPRC 2 received the report, which indicated that crews had to think strategically on how to put out the fire, keeping the battery cool, and had to remove the doors of the vehicle to access the passengers.”

 

[JHCCAZ]

While looking for updates found this news story from KPRC2’s Click2Houston’s site of the 911 calls made on the night of the crash.

‘The car exploded’: 911 calls reveal chilling details of what neighbors saw, heard after fiery Tesla crash near The Woodlands

KPRC 2 obtained the 911 calls from the night a Tesla Model S crashed into a tree in the Carlton Woods subdivision in Spring near The Woodlands.

www.click2houston.com

Apart from the call transcripts, found this info about the car doors that were not on the car’s frame in any of the published photos that we saw in the press:

“KPRC 2 received the report, which indicated that crews had to think strategically on how to put out the fire, keeping the battery cool, and had to remove the doors of the vehicle to access the passengers.”

It remains to be seen how much detail will be really be provided in the NTSB/NHTSA report.

Regarding the door removal, this might or might not have any relationship to the doors being jammed shut. That kind of jamming is a pretty common occurrence in a high speed crash, but I believe it's also true that removal of doors by the responders is not at all unusual.

This ncludes situations where the person in the seat is fully conscious but there is even a small possibility that they are injured and should minimize unnecessary movement. The responders have the tools to take the door off very quickly and easily, and it greatly simplifies the task of getting the occupant out of the car and onto a stretcher.

Similarly in the recent Houston crash, the need was to remove the deceased occupants while preserving forensics and dignity as well as possible, given the horrible circumstances. I think they would almost certainly cut off the doors to accomplish that, whether or not they absolutely had to.

Even if the front doors had been operable post-crash (which we don't know), it seems likely that they were blocked by the car being wedged into the trees and brush. Maybe same for the rear doors, but then there's apparently an additional complication of access to the mechanical release. And finally, the fire could easily have destroyed the doors' hinge, latch and frame components even if the crash didn't.

 

[Electrph]

It remains to be seen how much detail will be really be provided in the NTSB/NHTSA report.

Regarding the door removal, this might or might not have any relationship to the doors being jammed shut. That kind of jamming is a pretty common occurrence in a high speed crash, but I believe it's also true that removal of doors by the responders is not at all unusual.

This ncludes situations where the person in the seat is fully conscious but there is even a small possibility that they are injured and should minimize unnecessary movement. The responders have the tools to take the door off very quickly and easily, and it greatly simplifies the task of getting the occupant out of the car and onto a stretcher.

Similarly in the recent Houston crash, the need was to remove the deceased occupants while preserving forensics and dignity as well as possible, given the horrible circumstances. I think they would almost certainly cut off the doors to accomplish that, whether or not they absolutely had to.

Even if the front doors had been operable post-crash (which we don't know), it seems likely that they were blocked by the car being wedged into the trees and brush. Maybe same for the rear doors, but then there's apparently an additional complication of access to the mechanical release. And finally, the fire could easily have destroyed the doors' hinge, latch and frame components even if the crash didn't.

thank you !!
yes EXTREMELY common at major MVA sites for doors to be pried open pulled all the way / back / off .. roofs removed etc .. most commnonly to min potential for further spine injuries

 

[EVNow]

While looking for updates found this news story from KPRC2’s Click2Houston’s site of the 911 calls made on the night of the crash.

‘The car exploded’: 911 calls reveal chilling details of what neighbors saw, heard after fiery Tesla crash near The Woodlands

KPRC 2 obtained the 911 calls from the night a Tesla Model S crashed into a tree in the Carlton Woods subdivision in Spring near The Woodlands.

www.click2houston.com

Apart from the call transcripts, found this info about the car doors that were not on the car’s frame in any of the published photos that we saw in the press:

“KPRC 2 received the report, which indicated that crews had to think strategically on how to put out the fire, keeping the battery cool, and had to remove the doors of the vehicle to access the passengers.”

Also this ...

The report from the crash indicated that “there was one occupant in the front passenger seat area and another in the rear driver side area.”

Also good to see they are not blindly repeating what the constable said. But the got the detail about 30 mph wrong. I have no idea why Tesla can't publish a blog that gives the information read out in ER - in greater detail - clearly saying what was a recreation effort and what they conjecture is.

 

[SMAlset]

In a recent CleanTechnica’s article chastising other news sources for misinformation being repeated and likely not followed up with accurate info on AP, I noticed it listed the time of the accident near Midnight, which clearly for anyone who read the fire marshall’s report and 911 calls it happened just after 9pm. I LOL and at least gave them a 90 score for getting most of the info correct - the timing has been irrefutable fact for a while now. What bothered me however after that valiant effort to set the record straight was not only the incorrect timing but the fact they threw in the possibility the guys were out late night drinking! Deduct score on that one. We were told they had come back from dinner and dropped the wives off but no where have I heard they were drinking like the article alluded to might be the case. The official preliminary and final NTSB report can’t come soon enough.

How Many News Orgs & Tesla Critics Will Now Share That Autopilot Was Not On In Houston Tesla Crash? - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! I saw it again yesterday — a major media outlet (a major tech outlet even) was writing a story about Elon Musk and Tesla and added the false information that the Tesla Model S ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

“The most likely thing that happened is the owner wanted to show off the ludicrous acceleration of the fully loaded, top-end Model S he had recently bought used*, but the demonstration went awry when whoever was driving couldn’t control the vehicle and took it off the road at a high speed into a tree. Perhaps drinks were involved, too — it was late on a Saturday evening, almost midnight.” (My emphasis)

BTW the Harris County Public Release Incident Report that was sent out by the constable’s office, listed seven “involved persons” on the report including the car’s occupants. Their wives were listed along with three people who appear to be next door neighbors in the two homes on the same lakeside of the street as the car owner’s house was on.

 

[SMAlset]

In the KPRC2’s video I was able to make out some of the last page of the fire dept.’s report when the car had cooled down enough after 1am to extract the occupants. I could see some kind of mental counseling required by the dept. afterwards for the team and hope that’s actually something at least offered if not required.

Have not seen any updates on a surveillance video mentioned.

Our cars are heavy and powerful and if anything I hope incidents like this stick with people and makes them more cautious. It’s a call your family never wants to get.

 

[firsttruck]

more on Consumer Reports unfairness regarding Tesla AutoPilot driver assist.
Bagging on Tesla while giving competitors a pass.

Consumer Reports lied about Tesla: AutoPilot VS Co-Pilot 360
May 8, 2021
Sam Alexander

 

[SMAlset]

Preliminary NTSB report was released.

From Streetinsider:

NTSB Issues Preliminary Report on April 17 Texas Tesla (TSLA) Crash

(Updated - May 10, 2021 2:04 PM EDT) The National Transportation Safety Board issued Monday the preliminary report for its ongoing investigation of the fatal, April 17, 2021, crash of a 2019 Tesla (NASDAQ:...

www.streetinsider.com

"The report states the Model S P100D car was equipped with “Autopilot” – Tesla’s advanced driver assistance system. This system requires both the Traffic Aware Cruise Control and the Autosteer systems to be engaged. NTSB tests of an exemplar car at the crash location showed that Traffic Aware Cruise Control could be engaged, but Autosteer was not available on the part of the road (Hammock Dunes Place) where the crash happened.

According to the report the crash trip began at the owner’s residence. Footage from the owner’s home security cameras show the owner entering the driver’s seat and the passenger entering the front passenger seat. The video also shows the car slowly entering the roadway and then accelerating down the road away from the camera and out of sight. Based on examination of the accident scene investigators have determined the car traveled about 550 feet before departing the road on a curve, driving over the curb, and hitting a drainage culvert, a raised manhole and a tree."

Not seeing the actual NTSB report yet online.


Found the same info on the NTSB website:

NTSB Issues Preliminary Report for Fatal, Texas, Tesla Crash

www.ntsb.gov

 

[Electrph]

Preliminary NTSB report was released.

From Streetinsider:

NTSB Issues Preliminary Report on April 17 Texas Tesla (TSLA) Crash

(Updated - May 10, 2021 2:04 PM EDT) The National Transportation Safety Board issued Monday the preliminary report for its ongoing investigation of the fatal, April 17, 2021, crash of a 2019 Tesla (NASDAQ:...

www.streetinsider.com

"The report states the Model S P100D car was equipped with “Autopilot” – Tesla’s advanced driver assistance system. This system requires both the Traffic Aware Cruise Control and the Autosteer systems to be engaged. NTSB tests of an exemplar car at the crash location showed that Traffic Aware Cruise Control could be engaged, but Autosteer was not available on the part of the road (Hammock Dunes Place) where the crash happened.

According to the report the crash trip began at the owner’s residence. Footage from the owner’s home security cameras show the owner entering the driver’s seat and the passenger entering the front passenger seat. The video also shows the car slowly entering the roadway and then accelerating down the road away from the camera and out of sight. Based on examination of the accident scene investigators have determined the car traveled about 550 feet before departing the road on a curve, driving over the curb, and hitting a drainage culvert, a raised manhole and a tree."

yay facts ! .. very limited but facts

 

[SMAlset]

Here's the NTSB link for the docket for this case. Nothing has been posted yet. Posting more for convenience for people checking in later. Typically various reports and interviews will appear here that you can click on to read.

NTSB Docket - Docket Management System

data.ntsb.gov

 

[Wnuk]

Driver in control and not an autopilot issue, pretty much what's been deduced here shortly after the accident. Tragic still.