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[Updated] Model 3 CCS / CHAdeMO adapter
- Thread starter cbutters
- Start date
The standard that Tesla is going with in China is GB/T, which apparently is being combined with ChaDeMo into a new GB/T fast charging standard. The new GB/T standard will be backward compatible with ChaDeMo, so let's hope Tesla skips to either a new GB/T standard adapter or offers a new dual GB/T and Tesla port, which is what they have on their Model 3s in China already.
What they have on the Model 3's in China is the same as what they have on new S & X in China. GB/T AC plus GB/T DC.
Chinese Tesla Model 3 Spotted With Proper GB/T Connector
Argoniii
Member
Argoniii
Member
You're right, and yet wrong, mainly because you're missing a major use case that Tesla has not been able to address, and a use case that has the potential to result in a lot of sales, both of CHAdeMO adapters and cars: workplace level 3 charging.
At work, we've been discussing the problem of having way too many EVs for the number of charging spots. One big problem is that some percentage of users need to charge for a large portion of the day, and if you end up with somebody charging for six hours, another vehicle can't charge all day in the two or three hours that remain. An L3 charging setup can get much closer to full utilization all day because the charge cycle is so much shorter that charging for an hour is actually useful.
The only problem with that idea is that the majority of our EVs are Teslas, and a large percentage of those are Model 3s. So the only way level 3 workplace charging will ever be practical for us is if Tesla enables CHAdeMO support on the Model 3. Until Tesla rolls out that firmware update, it won't be possible to convince the powers that be to build the charging infrastructure, and we'll remain stuck at level 2 charging.
(Ostensibly, CCS would be a possibility, but not if the adapters are paired to the cars, because asking thousands of Tesla owners to spend hundreds of dollars for an adapter just so they can charge at work isn't likely to fly.)
juliusa
Active Member
Are there workplaces putting in L3 charging?
I don't see how L3 charging at work would be a major use case. More L2 charging is less expensive and more convenient. Better to just plug in and charge when at work, and unplug when you leave work.
I think a better workplace configuration would be on 3p480 service with 4 Wall Connectors (or J1772 equivalent) per circuit on each leg of service (277v). Each 100amps of service could power 12 L2 connections (66kW at 80% circuit loading). Over 8 hours that would provide an average of 44kWh per vehicle, which seems more than adequate. The alternative would be two 33kW L3 (probably more costly), where people would have to shuffle cars during work.
You could even have some "fast" L2 connectors where they are configured 2 connectors per circuit, so 22kW would be shared by two cars to deliver 44kWh average per vehicle in 4 hours.
My current employer actually just sent out a survey concerning workplace charging and L3 was an option listed. My previous employer has 36 L2 recharging spots that were always in use by several hundred electric and hybrid cars. If they had L2, a lot more cars would be able to charge throughout the day.
juliusa
Active Member
It will be interesting to see the results of the survey. It seems to me the charging capacity is limited by the kW made available to the chargers. If there is 66kW spread across 12 L2, or 2 L3, that is the same daily charging capacity. My guess is installing and maintaining 12 L2 is less expensive than 2 L3, but that is just a guess.
So I don't think L2 or L3 allows more cars to be charged - it is all about the kW made available. 8 hours should be plenty of time to charge on L2.
Which would be more convenient for you - to have enough L2 spaces for all cars, or have an L3 for every 6 cars?
Given the cost of level 3 equipment and its installation, I think they would be way better off installing a large number of L2 EVSEs. There are companies that specialize in large installs that control the max power draw to prevent the site from getting large demand charges.
Figure a single L3 charger installed probably costs ~$50k. So during an staggered 10 hour work day with each car charging for ~30-45 minutes you get a throughput of about 10 cars per day. Take that money and you should easily be able to install at least 25 L2 EVSEs. Now you get at least 25 cars charged without anyone having to leave their desk and move their car twice during the day.
L3 charging for the workplace make no sense. (That is unless you have a lot of travelling sales/service people.)
I don't know. I just responded to the survey.
It sounded like they were considering a combination of L2 and L3 charging stations. Maybe they intend to have L2 but also provide an L3 for more urgent charging if someone needs a change but all the L2 are occupied. At my previous job, there was a mailing list but it was very annoying to get dozens of emails throughout the day by owners trying to request a charging spot. They did set up a website and started sending out automated emails to cars that were finished charging (very similar to Tesla's notifications). That cut down on the annoying emails.
I'll update once they make an announcement but it could be a while before decisions are made.
It is so much more cost effective for the company to just provide enough lower amperage (or load managed) plugs for everyone to leave their car plugged in all day. Employees moving their cars is a productivity loss. You can get 25kWh in an 8 hour workday from a 208V 16A connection. One could argue that is a sufficient freebie for the company to provide.
juliusa
Active Member
That would make sense. I'm glad companies are starting to think this way.
Put in an "idle fee" after your charge is finished at the L3 chargers.
Get your employer to charge 0.05 per kWh above locale utility rate and it will suddenly increase charging capacities!
That is perfect, you don’t want super chargers where you live, they are for long distance travel and ideally used when you have 10 to 50% capacity.
You would never use one near your home.
juliusa
Active Member
srs5694
Active Member
Another factor is that frequent DC fast charging is more likely to degrade the battery than is Level 2 charging. This seems to be especially a problem for the Nissan Leaf. Teslas don't seem to be as bothered by it; however, I have seen a few reports of premature battery death because of heavy use of Superchargers; for instance:
Granted, that guy did other things wrong, like regularly charging to 100%; but when you can be parked for hours, it's better to do a longer Level 2 charge than to do a shorter DC fast charge. Thus, if it were my workplace, and if I was relying on it for charging my car because I lived in an apartment or whatever, I'd prefer to see more Level 2 chargers than fewer DC fast chargers.
Granted, that guy did other things wrong, like regularly charging to 100%; but when you can be parked for hours, it's better to do a longer Level 2 charge than to do a shorter DC fast charge. Thus, if it were my workplace, and if I was relying on it for charging my car because I lived in an apartment or whatever, I'd prefer to see more Level 2 chargers than fewer DC fast chargers.
Depending on your commute a level 1 could do the trick, and it is easier and cheaper to install.
seattlite2004
Active Member
They really shouldn't lump the two incompatible CCS standards together, it really misrepresents things.
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