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[updated with *] P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"
- Thread starter krisg81
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
My findings, coming from a P85 to the P85D and still owning a P85 also, is that the P85D just isn't as efficient as either of the P85s. On a highway drive at 60-70 MPH the P85D comes very close to the efficiency of the P85, maybe exceeding it by a hair (< 1%) at times. At over 70 MPH and the P85 seems to win hands down. In city driving the P85 also is a hands down efficiency victor.
My longer trips are usually cruise set at ~75-78 and the P85 has done better on all of those trips so far.
dennis
Model S Plaid
As I recall at the time the order page you linked said 285 miles of range 65 mph for the P85D it also showed 285 miles of range at 65 mph for the S85 and 295 miles of range at 65 mph for the 85D.
I believe where most people were initially misled is comparing the 285 miles of constant 65 mph range for the D to the 265 miles of EPA range for the S85/P85. The little footnote "at constant 65 mph" was sometimes unstated and sometimes overlooked. And of course we now know that while the P85D has the same range as the P85 at a constant 65 mph it has 4-5% less range on the EPA 5-cycle test.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't know about most people, but I think a lot of people, including me, relied on what Musk said during the October announcement. WK057 took the time to transcribe it (upthread). I had watched that presentation more times than I care to admit before ordering, and then before receiving my P85D. The following excerpts from his transcription were not lost on me in all the times I had watched, as I expect they were not lost on others who saw the presentation. They were impressive points. They made an impact. You didn't need to hear them several times to really "get" them:
dennis
Model S Plaid
I guess the difference for me was that while I heard it I never believed it. A heavier, more powerful car having more range from the same size battery. Sounded like a perpetual motion machine. But since I was satisfied with the range of my P85+ it didn't matter to me one way or the other, and still doesn't. My lifetime in the P85D thus far is only 1-2% worse than my lifetime in the P85+.
My lifetime average in the P85D is now 380Wh/mi almost over 9000 miles, and my P85 was at 320Wh/mi at ~22,000 miles. Pretty big difference there. Granted some of that 380 includes many insane mode launches... but at the same time, I drove the P85 just as hard, so many launches would be included in the 320 number also.
My fiance's life average is in the 340s on her P85 (she doesn't drive quite as efficiently as I tend to). So, definitely not there, IMO.
My fiance's life average is in the 340s on her P85 (she doesn't drive quite as efficiently as I tend to). So, definitely not there, IMO.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Presumably those P85 miles included summer months. You haven't driven your P85D through summer yet so that's not a fair comparison. Wh/mi drops considerably in warm weather.
Aren't some of those miles from before the torque sleep changes? In your video you were getting about the same efficiency as the P85 after the changes, right?
Omg... First he talk about the 85D.. And range etc is better.. And that's true.. And then he mention the P85D.. he never say that the P85D will have better range. he says almost everything is better.
He even says that they keep the OLD engine in the P85D..
Even the stupid PRESS understood that the 85D was the only car with better range..
But i understand that its easy to belive something else when Tesla Motors | Premium Electric Vehicles had something other writhen
He even says that they keep the OLD engine in the P85D..
Even the stupid PRESS understood that the 85D was the only car with better range..
But i understand that its easy to belive something else when Tesla Motors | Premium Electric Vehicles had something other writhen
I transcribed the whole thing. No where does he say "85D." His whole speech is while gesturing to a P85D chassis.
So, again, you're wrong.
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Yes, about 25% pre-torque sleep. I got similar efficiency at sub 70 MPH speeds down to about 50 MPH. Everywhere else the P85 is more efficient.
How can you say I'm wrong? Haha I didn't believe anyone thought this. Expect that ONE norwegian guy who asked on a norwegian forum. several thousand people didn't misunderstud Elon. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. I ordered a P85D and know I didn't buy the car with the best range. You didn't.
P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"
I love my P85D, more than I loved my P85+. I was at the D launch event, and Elon's statement that the P85D would have better range than my P85+ was a factor in deciding to place an order that night.
Am I disappointed? Yes, as I do take road trips into areas without super chargers. Do I feel compelled to ask for compensation? No. Will I take future Tesla claims with a grain of salt? You bet.
I think Elon made a decision with incomplete data. At the time he probably thought they would be able to achieve better efficiency with torque sleep. It just didn't pan out that way.
I am also growing a bit annoyed with the autopilot delay. I've got two major road trips this summer and I will be very disappointed if lane keep isn't enabled by then.
I'm still a huge Tesla fan and supporter though. You can't beat it. It all comes back to communication and managing expectations which is a weak area for Tesla. Unfortunately this erodes customer trust which is very difficult to regain.
I love my P85D, more than I loved my P85+. I was at the D launch event, and Elon's statement that the P85D would have better range than my P85+ was a factor in deciding to place an order that night.
Am I disappointed? Yes, as I do take road trips into areas without super chargers. Do I feel compelled to ask for compensation? No. Will I take future Tesla claims with a grain of salt? You bet.
I think Elon made a decision with incomplete data. At the time he probably thought they would be able to achieve better efficiency with torque sleep. It just didn't pan out that way.
I am also growing a bit annoyed with the autopilot delay. I've got two major road trips this summer and I will be very disappointed if lane keep isn't enabled by then.
I'm still a huge Tesla fan and supporter though. You can't beat it. It all comes back to communication and managing expectations which is a weak area for Tesla. Unfortunately this erodes customer trust which is very difficult to regain.
It is not whether Elon promised P85D to have the best range. It is whether he promised it to have better range than P85.
On video Elon says "virtually everything in the car improves with dual motor". He does not say, "everything with the S85 improves", he says everything in the car. So you presume, that when you ad the dual motor to P85, its range improves.
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thegruf
Active Member
Well I actually backed out of my decision to go with P85D and went for 85D instead, so Tesla lost $20K from my pocket.
I simply cannot understand why Tesla didnt sort this out earlier before they appear to have gotten in to the mess they have.
The other models quote hp so why doesnt the P85D quote hp?
The concern I have with the figures is that both the 0-60 acceleration AND the 691hp are important.
Nobody is questioning the 0-60 times but what 691hp should deliver is even more stunning 30-x and 50-x times and this is where although it is quick no doubt, and a bit faster than the 85D, it is more like 530hp quick and not 691hp insane.
So I do think Tesla have somewhat shot themselves in the foot with this one, and risk it increasingly coming back to bite them.
I would even go a bit further and encourage Elon and Tesla to keep to refreshingly open and honest sales/marketing and keep away from the corporate BS that inevitably will try to creep in as the company grows.
As a differentiator, this will serve the company far better in the medium and long term.
Note also that other manufacturers and hostile press will increasingly pick on "ambitious" marketing and rip into Tesla if the are given the opportunity.
I am minded to think that one of the more experienced members here could invite Jerome's comment on this matter.
I simply cannot understand why Tesla didnt sort this out earlier before they appear to have gotten in to the mess they have.
The other models quote hp so why doesnt the P85D quote hp?
The concern I have with the figures is that both the 0-60 acceleration AND the 691hp are important.
Nobody is questioning the 0-60 times but what 691hp should deliver is even more stunning 30-x and 50-x times and this is where although it is quick no doubt, and a bit faster than the 85D, it is more like 530hp quick and not 691hp insane.
So I do think Tesla have somewhat shot themselves in the foot with this one, and risk it increasingly coming back to bite them.
I would even go a bit further and encourage Elon and Tesla to keep to refreshingly open and honest sales/marketing and keep away from the corporate BS that inevitably will try to creep in as the company grows.
As a differentiator, this will serve the company far better in the medium and long term.
Note also that other manufacturers and hostile press will increasingly pick on "ambitious" marketing and rip into Tesla if the are given the opportunity.
I am minded to think that one of the more experienced members here could invite Jerome's comment on this matter.
justaddsun
Member
Really well put @andrewket, @thegruf, and others. Tesla needs to mature and understand that it is THE electric car/tech/car company to beat. They don't need to be that little puppy yapping at it's owner's pant legs anymore; they have a seat at the table now. No need for grandiose claims because the product is sooooo good on its own, true merits. I do think they are probably starting to understand: look at the 70D launch (hell of a lot of car/tech, no need for more/less) or the surprise performance improvement in the 85D (underpromise/overdeliver). I am also concerned about the (true) AP launch this summer. Will it invite as much criticism as it does praise?
I say you're wrong because you're wrong. The facts don't match what you claim, plain and simple. I've posted evidence against what you say, proving that you are wrong. You've not provided anything to back up your assertions whatsoever.
My experience with Tesla in quite a few areas had been one of them setting expectations and then failing to meet them. It would be one thing if they weren't meeting expectations I made, but I set mine to theirs assuming they will do what they say they will do when they say they will do it.
This thread seems like just another par for the course on the one hand, yet of course, the car is still a 3 second 0-60 vehicle and that hasn't changed since the beginning.
What worries me is that this pattern of cashing in on owner's goodwill will continue into model X and on into model 3. As the numerical demographic widens, the more people there will be that won't put up with this. And the more money and effort it will take to fix that.
This thread seems like just another par for the course on the one hand, yet of course, the car is still a 3 second 0-60 vehicle and that hasn't changed since the beginning.
What worries me is that this pattern of cashing in on owner's goodwill will continue into model X and on into model 3. As the numerical demographic widens, the more people there will be that won't put up with this. And the more money and effort it will take to fix that.
I did some more brief runs with the PBox today, using the external GPS antenna this time. Seems my SD card got corrupted, though, so I don't actually have the data to share.... *grumble*
In any case, the read outs on the display still showed low 500s for horsepower on the few quick runs I did (~90% charge). I can never get the REST API to work since I got the P85D, so, nothing from there (and no real time to mess with it lately).
In any case, the read outs on the display still showed low 500s for horsepower on the few quick runs I did (~90% charge). I can never get the REST API to work since I got the P85D, so, nothing from there (and no real time to mess with it lately).
90% = 414 KW = 555 hp before any sort of losses. I assume you entered the weight + yourself into the Performance Box? It's been proven to be within a percent or two accuracy compared to a dyno.
If you saw 510 at the wheels, that would be a hair over 8% loss would would mean the Tesla suffers very little losses from the battery, to the converter, to the motor, from the shaft, through reduction gear (to grandmothers house we go) and finally to the wheels.
What was the max rwhp you saw?
Have you tried the powertools app on the app store? It will log the KW output.
I ordered a VBox. Not as fancy as the PBox but just as accurate.
If you saw 510 at the wheels, that would be a hair over 8% loss would would mean the Tesla suffers very little losses from the battery, to the converter, to the motor, from the shaft, through reduction gear (to grandmothers house we go) and finally to the wheels.
What was the max rwhp you saw?
Have you tried the powertools app on the app store? It will log the KW output.
I ordered a VBox. Not as fancy as the PBox but just as accurate.
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