TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

UPS, part 2

Discussion in 'Tesla Energy' started by zƬesla, Mar 3, 2021 at 6:55 AM.

  1. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    There is a really long UPS thread from a while ago, and what I am hoping for in this one is to get a listing of UPS models that work seamlessly with Powerwalls. I have an APC Back-UPS NS 650M1 that goes into battery mode whenever the grid goes out and Powerwalls kick in even though we had Tesla lower the frequency to 63Hz (verified with Kill-a-Watt at <=62.9) and the Back-UPS is rated for 50/60 Hz + – 3. So, what UPS do you have working with Powerwalls set to 63 Hz and not going into battery mode when grid goes out?
     
  2. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    7,114
    Location:
    Riverside Co. CA
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  3. jimmythefrack

    jimmythefrack Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  4. wjgjr

    wjgjr Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2020
    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    Silver Spring, MD
    I second the Eatons. I have four of them, from a 550VA through a 1500VA model, and have not had a single complaint from them during off-grid operations.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  5. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    Thanks for the Eaton suggestions. Looks like they go up to 70 Hz. Dealing with Tesla has been a non-starter as each time they kick it over to 2nd level support and I never hear back. The original downgrade to 63Hz was at install time when the tech was on the phone with them. I'll probably need to replace the battery on the APCs soon, so I don't mind switching over to something else.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    Interesting that Amazon itself doesn't sell the Eaton 3S, only third-party sellers. Looks like Walmart and Newegg carries it though.
     
  7. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    7,114
    Location:
    Riverside Co. CA
    I just looked at my amazon order (I got it last year shortly after getting my powerwalls), and it was also through a third party, not amazon directly. When ordering from Amazon, I tend to avoid third parties, but I remember being eager at the time to get "the right / best thing" because I didnt know if tesla would lower the frequency.

    I got the eaton, and tested it (before tesla lowered my frequency) and as others reported it worked fine (but other things in my house didnt work fine, but that discussion is in that other thread lol). So, I contacted tesla and got them to lower it. It was pretty painless actually, but I didnt get to pick what they lowered it to, they just picked a number.

    With that being said, my solar was installed by solar city, and my powerwalls were installed by tesla, so they had all the exact specs of my equipment in their files.

    If I were in your shoes, I think I would purchase the eaton (I buy stuff from newegg too sometimes so im sure that would be fine as well), and still keep escalating to tesla that "your microwave is running strange, your lights flicker, and your APC battery backup units are still malfunctioning. with the frequency set to 63 hz, can you please have tier 2 re evaluate and set to 62hz or 62.5 hz)?"

    They have been unwilling for most to go below 62, but I suspect you might be able to get them to go to 62.5hz. In any case I am de railing this thread, because its about the UPS devices, so I will stop now, lol.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. gpez

    gpez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    USA
    One thing I think people keep forgetting is that even though the Eaton UPSs are tolerant of frequency changes all the way up to 70hz your computer's power supply is likely not. The Intel ATX standard and subsequent power supply design guidelines state that the maximum input frequency is 63hz: Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors (intel.com) (page 14). Exceeding that limit could cause all sorts of problems, from crashes all the way up to equipment damage. Of course some PSUs may have higher tolerances but that will vary by manufacturer and model.

    upload_2021-3-3_9-15-19.png

    Your best approach by far is to get Tesla to reduce the maximum frequency of your system below 63hz with 62hz being a good value. Getting a UPS that is tolerant of high frequencies is a band aid and not a very good one.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  9. jboy210

    jboy210 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,603
    Location:
    Northern California
    #9 jboy210, Mar 3, 2021 at 9:15 AM
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021 at 9:34 AM
    We have a number of CyberPower units that work well at the 62 Hz maximum Tesla set for our system. Tesla asked for the UPS manufacturer and specific model number and use that information to determine the maximum amount the TEG should raise the frequency to shut down the inverters. The model numbers we have are of the form xxxPFCLCD, where xxx is the capacity, ex 850.

    We have had a couple of outages, and with a maximum frequency of 62 Hz have had no issues with electronic devices and the UPSes when the TEG shutdown the inverters. We have Delta M-4 and M-8 inverters.
     
  10. eml2

    eml2 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    #10 eml2, Mar 3, 2021 at 9:21 AM
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021 at 9:26 AM
    I have 2 Tripp Lite UPS (OMNIVS1000 and G1000U) that I bought many years ago. Both work fine when my Powerwall is at 98%+ and grid is out.. I haven't asked Tesla to lower the frequency.

    OTOH, I also have a Cyberpower that doesn't work with Powerwall at 98%+ and grid is out.
     
  11. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    Do the Eatons manage the frequency in any way (i.e., supply it at 60Hz even if AC input is greater), or are those the $$$ wave converting UPS only?
     
  12. gpez

    gpez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    USA
    There are 3 types of UPSs, in order of cost: standby, line interactive, and online. Standby provides no regulation until the battery kicks in. Line interactive can boost or reduce voltage but not frequency. Only online models, the most expensive, provide output regulation of both voltage and frequency when not on battery. Eaton makes online UPSes, but they're very pricy, such as the 9SX Double conversion UPS | Network UPS | 9SX | Eaton. A quick search shows that a 1000 VA 9SX model is ~$1300 retail.

    The Eaton 3S UPS which many here have suggested is standby (Eaton 3S UPS | Home & Office Equipment | Eaton) and the Eaton 5S UPS is line interactive (Eaton 5S UPS (550-1500 VA) 230V). Neither provide output frequency regulation until the battery kicks in.

    Eaton has a nice FAQ for this: Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) FAQs | Eaton.

    tl;dr those are the $$$ UPSes :)
     
    • Informative x 2
  13. charlesj

    charlesj Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2019
    Messages:
    1,005
    Location:
    Monterey, CA
    I had Tesla lower mine to 61Hz as Enphase inverter has a cut off frequency of 60.5 Hz.
    Have them lower it to 62Hz?
     
  14. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    Just heard from Tesla that they lowered the frequency to 62Hz. Hopefully that resolves it. If not, will likely go the Eaton route, keeping in mind @gpez warning on the equipment hooked up.Thanks all for the feedback.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. gpez

    gpez Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    USA
    That's great. 62hz should be fine, I've seen no issues since mine was reduced to that level with my CyberPower UPSes. If you're sensitive to it you may notice motors (vent hood, microwave, garage door opener) sound slightly different...like 2hz different :)

    Spec sheet on the APC Back-UPS NS 650M1 (page 2) says input frequency of 60hz +/- 3hz so 62hz shouldn't cause any issues.
     
  16. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    That's the weird thing – even though PVWatts was showing 62.9, the BackUPS was still in backup mode. Not sure if the +/- 3 is not accurate or if something else was going on.
     
  17. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    7,114
    Location:
    Riverside Co. CA
    Mine is set to 62hz and everything works as it should. Your APC battery backups should work now as well (referring to the original condition, which is off grid, battery almost full frequency).

    I would test it to make sure they actually did it, with a kill a watt or similar. I bought a device similar to a kill a watt from amazon I can link if you dont have one.
     
  18. zƬesla

    zƬesla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    US-NH
    Yup, meant KillAWatt above, not PVWatts
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC