Used 2019 Model 3 Standard Range Plus - Does it need a new battery?

[whiteskulleton]

I'm looking to buy a used Tesla. I went to a dealership and sat in a car and took a picture of the Energy screen. Am I correct to assume that it's battery is not good?
2019 Model 3 Standard Range Plus
Odometer: 47,651
209 Wh/Mi for 30 miles average range
183 miles projected
SOC: 88%

That would gives us 209*183/.88=43.5 kWh @ 100% charge
The original battery capacity is 54.5kWh, correct? That would then be 43.5 kWh / 54.5 kWh = 79.7% capacity, correct? This battery is not looking good, correct? Did I use the wrong capacity number? Did I do the math wrong? Could it be that the car was sitting at the dealership and not moving so that had an impact on it's battery degradation?

 

[Candleflame]

Rated range for a 2019 SR+ is 240 miles. So 183 / 0.88 = 207 miles at 100% which means around 14% range loss. That is pretty normal for a 3 year old car with 80k kms on the clock. My 2019 stealth performance has 440km from 499km so thats 12%.

Sitting at the dealership at 90% will have an impact over time. Itd probably better if it would sit at <50% but its not a big deal. Worst is 80% which is actually worse than 100%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The original battery capacity is 54.5kWh, correct?

No, it was 52.5kWh (we should really have a table in the sticky of original nominal and actual capacities!). So 16-17%. Not unusual for these particular vehicles but on the high side.

Personally I’d try to find one doing slightly better or at least see if they are all about the same first.

183 miles projected

Rated range for a 2019 SR+ is 240 miles. So 183 / 0.88 = 207 miles at 100% which means around 14% range loss

I think it was meant projected range on the Energy screen. (The sticky method is being used when assessing vehicles to buy, which is great to see!)

Presumably at 88% the rated miles were closer to 176, not 183.

This vehicle has 200 rated miles or so at 100%, down from the original 240.

 

[whiteskulleton]

No, it was 52.5kWh (we should really have a table in the sticky of original nominal and actual capacities!). So 16-17%. Not unusual for these particular vehicles but on the high side.

Personally I’d try to find one doing slightly better or at least see if they are all about the same first.




I think it was meant projected range on the Energy screen. (The sticky method is being used when assessing vehicles to buy, which is great to see!)

Presumably at 88% the rated miles were closer to 176, not 183.

This vehicle has 200 rated miles or so at 100%, down from the original 240.

I was under the impression that at 30% battery degradation, you needed to replace the battery. Since it's 17%, I was thinking there was a problem and it was nearly halfway there because others have said they expect 5% degradation at 50k miles and around 10% at 150k miles. Because I am new here I don't think I'm allowed to attach photos. They have another Tesla (which was the one I was interested in) but the dealer was driving it so I couldn't take a look. I'm also looking to buy one that is eligible for a 4k tax credit at around 100,000 miles so what percent should I expect that one to have for it to be good?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I was under the impression that at 30% battery degradation, you needed to replace the battery. Since it's 17%, I was thinking there was a problem and it was nearly halfway there because others have said they expect 5% degradation at 50k miles and around 10% at 150k miles. Because I am new here I don't think I'm allowed to attach photos. They have another Tesla (which was the one I was interested in) but the dealer was driving it so I couldn't take a look. I'm also looking to buy one that is eligible for a 4k tax credit at around 100,000 miles so what percent should I expect that one to have for it to be good?

View attachment 909973

I’d expect 10-15% typically. Slows way down after the first couple years.

If you find one a few years old at 5% that would be really good and definitely something to buy.

 

[whiteskulleton]

I’d expect 10-15% typically. Slows way down after the first couple years.

If you find one a few years old at 5% that would be really good and definitely something to buy.

 

[whiteskulleton]

I’d expect 10-15% typically. Slows way down after the first couple years.

If you find one a few years old at 5% that would be really good and definitely something to buy.

Here is the car with 105k miles I am considering buying. They charged it to 100% and the stated that it was a standard range Tesla. I'm assuming it is a SR+. If so then it would be 204 Wh/mi * 241 mi projected= 49164 Wh / 52500 Wh = 93.6 % or 6.35% degradation. That sounds really good. Am I doing it correctly?

 

[father_of_6]

I was under the impression that at 30% battery degradation, you needed to replace the battery.

No, that's just what the warranty will cover. If there's more than 30% battery degradation during warranty coverage, Tesla will replace the battery with a remanufactured.

That said, there's also the matter of the BMS (battery management system)... it could be that the battery's capacity is higher than the numbers show, but the BMS hasn't enough information to know that. This can happen if the car is never allowed to charge all the way up and down, the BMS can't learn the true whole range of the battery.

There are posts like "how I recovered X percent of range" that might be of interest to you.

My opinion about this particular car is... if it has enough range for your commute, it's fine. If this will be your first EV, you might be surprised to learn that you may not get the rated range anyways. Winter is a range killer, and driving habits can definitely reduce range as well.

Good luck!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is the car with 105k miles I am considering buying. They charged it to 100% and the stated that it was a standard range Tesla. I'm assuming it is a SR+. If so then it would be 204 Wh/mi * 241 mi projected= 49164 Wh / 52500 Wh = 93.6 % or 6.35% degradation. That sounds really good. Am I doing it correctly?
View attachment 910025

Yes, seems correct. Seems way preferable over the other one. Switch to miles display just to be sure!!!

There are lots of different SR+ so you should at least know the model year. It is possible it is a 2022 LFP that got driven a LOT (easy to tell from charge screen though or rule it out on the B-pillar). There is also a 53.5kWh (55.4kWh FPWN) NCA which started appearing in 2021 sometime.

From a 2019/2020 this would be great though.

Possible starting values are 240, 250, 262, 263, and 272 (I think there was a temporary 253 as well instead of 262) depending on year and pack.

 

[whiteskulleton]

Seems way preferable over the other one. Switch to miles display just to be sure!!!

There are lots of different SR+ so you should at least know the model year. It is possible it is a 2022 LFP that got driven a LOT (easy to tell from charge screen though or rule it out on the B-pillar). There is also a 53.5kWh (55.4kWh FPWN) NCA which started appearing in 2021 sometime.

From a 2019/2020/2021 this would be great though.

Possible starting values are 240, 250, 262, 263, and 272 (I think there was a temporary 253 as well instead of 262) depending on year and pack.

It's a 2019, I don't have access to the car as it's at the dealer. The miles at the black battery icon said 224 at 100% when I facetimed. It's got to be a SR+ right? At 105k
I'm trying to look at another 2019 M3 that I had mentioned earlier and trying to get a screenshot of that energy screen to determine the battery life. It's at 58k miles and the difference in price between this and the 105k M3 would be $8k ($21k vs $29k). They should have the same battery and they have the same Autopilot. If they have similar battery degradation, which would you choose? At 105k, I'm guessing that the Tesla has maintenance costs coming down the pipeline. I drive 20k miles a year btw.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The miles at the black battery icon said 224 at 100% when I facetimed.

Yeah that is a 2019. That suggests 6.5% and aligns with energy screen, really good for a 2019.

If they have similar battery degradation, which would you choose?

Lower mileage one.

 

[whiteskulleton]

Here is the 58k mile white model specs
207*187/.88 = 43,987 Wh / 52500 Wh = 84% or 16% degradation. Why are these models so much lower than the 105k model? Did the charge being at 100% for the black one have something to do with it?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is the 58k mile white model specs
207*187/.88 = 43,987 Wh / 52500 Wh = 84% or 16% degradation. Why are these models so much lower than the 105k model? Did the charge being at 100% for the black one have something to do with it?

View attachment 910183

It depends on the initial pack capacity, when it was manufactured, and how it was used and stored.

I think there is some luck to it but there is debate on that front.

I think the differences are real, however, a couple % shift on a 100% charge can happen. But nothing like 8-10%.

They are just estimates but usually they are fairly stable. Mine has shifted in a 3-5% range (up and down) over the past three years and has not trended down.

Could you be looking at just a 5% difference between the vehicles in reality? Sure. But I would not count on seeing any recovery, and I would not take the 6.5% loss as certain either (maybe it is 8-9% in reality).

I think it is quite likely that the 105k vehicle has more energy available than the others, but has received a lot more use (cycles).

It is tough to know what to do.

The pack warranty is only 100k so that is worth considering. I’d take the car with a pack warranty I think and keep waiting for one with lower miles but a better pack.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Possible starting values are 240, 250, 262, 263, and 272 (I think there was a temporary 253 as well instead of 262) depending on year and pack.

253 was the starting rated range for some late 2021 SR+ with LFP battery. Most 2021 SR+ had NCA battery with 263 rated range. (Assuming 18" wheels; may be different for other wheels.)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

253 was the starting rated range for some late 2021 SR+ with LFP battery. Most 2021 SR+ had NCA battery with 263 rated range. (Assuming 18" wheels; may be different for other wheels.)

Right but they changed to 262 from 253 as I recall for that LFP. So the 253 is kind of not real.

Just my recollection.

 

[whiteskulleton]

It depends on the initial pack capacity, when it was manufactured, and how it was used and stored.

I think there is some luck to it but there is debate on that front.

I think the differences are real, however, a couple % shift on a 100% charge can happen. But nothing like 8-10%.

They are just estimates but usually they are fairly stable. Mine has shifted in a 3-5% range (up and down) over the past three years and has not trended down.

Could you be looking at just a 5% difference between the vehicles in reality? Sure. But I would not count on seeing any recovery, and I would not take the 6.5% loss as certain either (maybe it is 8-9% in reality).

I think it is quite likely that the 105k vehicle has more energy available than the others, but has received a lot more use (cycles).

It is tough to know what to do.

The pack warranty is only 100k so that is worth considering. I’d take the car with a pack warranty I think and keep waiting for one with lower miles but a better pack.

I really appreciate the information. The other thing is that I'm starting to need a new car as my 2006 Ford Taurus is really showing signs of issues (163k miles). This would be my first car purchase and I was looking for something under $25k that would qualify for the $4k used EV tax credit. Finding a Tesla that is under $25k is hard to come by. Does anyone think there are going to be plenty on the market under $25k and under 100k miles in the next months?
The black 105k one is out of state and I would have to travel to get it. It's up north in a little more colder weather and one of the dealer photos actually had a blue snowflake next to the battery (I'm in NC). Anyway, I'm working out the details now to see how I'm going to drive it back down since Tesla doesn't let put the car in your name after your buy it. I'm looking into how plug share works.
The black 105k does have 2 owners and has been in 2 accidents but it was only minor cosmetic damage to the front (1st) and right (2nd accident). If the battery is still better than the other two at that milage, isn't that a very good indicator that it is going to last to 300k miles or can the battery still rapidly deplete? Obviously the major concern is with the suspension, drivetrain, and fluid components going bad and having expensive repairs in the near future. I'll start looking for some good forum posts about how when I can expect that and how much it would cost. If you have any information, please share. Finally, why does the projected milage on the black 105k show 241 while the milage next to the black battery (where the percentage is) shows 224 miles (not in photo)?
The other 2 Teslas are local and at $29k are a bit out of my range. However, they are local. Factor in the dealer fees, taxes, and charging equipment, it will be over $30k. But all the Teslas will have these fees. I want to drive a Tesla for the next 10-15 years.
Thanks so far for the information.

 

[father_of_6]

If the battery is still better than the other two at that milage, isn't that a very good indicator that it is going to last to 300k miles or can the battery still rapidly deplete?

I think the concern wouldn't be degradation... a battery can just die.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The black 105k does have 2 owners and has been in 2 accidents but it was only minor cosmetic damage to the front (1st) and right (2nd accident).

Seems undesirable but up to you. $21k seems not bad for a used Tesla if you can make it happen but have to be very careful with the compromises.

This would be my first car purchase and I was looking for something under $25k that would qualify for the $4k used EV tax credit. Finding a Tesla that is under $25k is hard to come by. Does anyone think there are going to be plenty on the market under $25k and under 100k miles in the next months?

Seems tough.

Anyway, I'm working out the details now to see how I'm going to drive it back down since Tesla doesn't let put the car in your name after your buy it.

Not sure what you mean.

I'll start looking for some good forum posts about how when I can expect that and how much it would cost.

Biggest issue is battery is over $10k. (LR is $13k). Make sure it is in good shape and ideally also under some warranty for a bit.

Finally, why does the projected milage on the black 105k show 241 while the milage next to the black battery (where the percentage is) shows 224 miles (not in photo)?

Vehicle constant: 52.5kWh/240rmi

Capacity / Constant = rated miles at 100% (not the case exactly at any other percentage)

204Wh/mi*241mi / (52.5kWh / 240 rmi) = 224rmi

 

[whiteskulleton]

I think the concern wouldn't be degradation... a battery can just die.

So it's likely that the battery won't degrade any more? Usually with batteries in things like computers and stuff, it will keep degrading until it has difficulty holding a charge and will just suddenly shut off at 20%. Is it wrong to assume that with a Tesla battery?

 

[whiteskulleton]

Not sure what you mean.

In order to use a supercharger, don't you have to use the Tesla app and have a car on the Tesla app?