V10 Nav on AP Improvements

[diplomat33]

It appears that Tesla has made some improvements to Nav on AP with V10. I have not had a chance to do an extensive test myself of NOA yet on V10 but according to this video, NOA handles merging traffic better, is more assertive in lane changes and also merges from on ramps sooner and doesn't wait to the end of the on ramp. I am especially happy with that last one.

Forgive the over the top fanboyish commentary. Hopefully, the video itself is informative.

Anyone notice any improvements or changes in NOA on V10?

 

[ilyak]

I did a 400 mile drive on Sunday right after receiving 2019.32.11. Model 3, HW2.5, FSD, USA. While this is, of course, subjective, I can't say I noticed any improvement in how NoA handles lane changes - quite the opposite. As before, the car handled merges into traffic by drastically slowing down and often aborted the process after failing to find a safe opening because it was going significantly slower than other cars. I did notice that the blinker is now turned on at least a couple of seconds earlier than it used to be, well before the steering wheel vibration alert is triggered. This makes the entire merge take long enough to confuse other drivers into thinking you just left the blinker on, as illustrated by several drivers initially trying to leave me room and then speeding up after not seeing any action from my car. Also, "merging out of passing lane" behavior got broken for me on this release - while passing large trucks, the car repeatedly attempted to initiate lane changes long before actually clearing the vehicle it was passing, making me speed up to let it complete the merge safely. Despite some 15000 miles of NoA driving experience, this was a very uncomfortable. Finally, I also saw about a dozen of no-reason changes into the passing lane when there was no other traffic around me and the route did not call for it.

Edit: cleaned up some confusing sentences

 

[arghx7]

I think I'm going to keep my $6000 for a while longer.

 

[ilyak]

I think I'm going to keep my $6000 for a while longer.

Keep in mind that these are observations from a single car and a single person. I personally consider NoA to have great value for long-distance highway driving.

 

[arghx7]

It seems like, as of today, the features currently released are worth about $1000 to me, maybe $2000. If they didn't require so many interventions I'd probably be close to paying the $6k.

 

[mikes_fsd]

It seems like, as of today, the features currently released are worth about $1000 to me, maybe $2000. If they didn't require so many interventions I'd probably be close to paying the $6k.

That is the whole point, you already see $2000 of value out of the $6k price.... and it's only going to get better. Yes, it will take time, but it will get better.
What will you say when the price increases before the year is out?

 

[boonedocks]

That is the whole point, you already see $2000 of value out of the $6k price.... and it's only going to get better. Yes, it will take time, but it will get better.
What will say when the price increases before the year is out?

Quick Tesla...Raise the price of FSD by $2,000 today!!!!!

 

[ilyak]

There is a pretty lively thread on this currently going on in the Tesla subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/dd7b59/v10_autopilot_is_soooo_much_smoother_on_the/

The gamut of experiences people are reporting makes me wonder if Tesla is doing some a/b testing with customer cars.

 

[Cyberax]

Anyone notice any improvements or changes in NOA on V10?

Just finished a 200 mile freeway drive. I honestly couldn't see any real difference in freeway driving. But I don't use automatic lane changes and I usually turn on the AP only after properly merging.

 

[Atari2600]

I often drive 100+ mile trips and I agree it is much better.

 

[diplomat33]

A few observations based on a short NOA trip today:

-Nags are actually easier now on the highway than on local roads.
- Auto lane changes are better. They seem smarter and more assertive.
- On ramps and off ramp transitions seemed a bit smoother as well.

 

[thewishmaster]

I did a 400 mile drive on Sunday right after receiving 2019.32.11. Model 3, HW2.5, FSD, USA. While this is, of course, subjective, I can't say I noticed any improvement in how NoA handles lane changes - quite the opposite. As before, the car handled merges into traffic by drastically slowing down and often aborted the process after failing to find a safe opening because it was going significantly slower than other cars. I did notice that the blinker is now turned on at least a couple of seconds earlier than it used to be, well before the steering wheel vibration alert is triggered. This makes the entire merge take long enough to confuse other drivers into thinking you just left the blinker on, as illustrated by several drivers initially trying to leave me room and then speeding up after not seeing any action from my car. Also, "merging out of passing lane" behavior got broken for me on this release - while passing large trucks, the car repeatedly attempted to initiate lane changes long before actually clearing the vehicle it was passing, making me speed up to let it complete the merge safely. Despite some 15000 miles of NoA driving experience, this was a very uncomfortable. Finally, I also saw about a dozen of no-reason changes into the passing lane when there was no other traffic around me and the route did not call for it.

Edit: cleaned up some confusing sentences

+1 to the slower-seeming lane changes. It must be the extra time the blinker is on. Occasionally the lane change is a bit quicker than usual (maybe 2-3 blinks quicker). I haven't figured out the pattern yet.

 

[timewasted]

As usual when I talk about NoA, I very much want to talk to anyone with an AP2.0 vehicle that says NoA is anything but garbage. I think autopilot itself is a bit smoother in v10, but NoA is still terrible in all the ways it was terrible when it was first released. It’s still like driving with a scared and timid teenager who is driving on the freeway for the first time.

Looking forward to the mythical AP3 retrofits at some point...

 

[Carnage-]

Did a long trip yesterday, V10 seems to be a bit of a downgrade in the UK/EU some lowlights:

- NoA is not available on all roads that it should be; I think it should be enabled on all dual carriage ways and motorways, however it is very intermittent on dual carriage ways coming on for a few miles then switching back to regular auto pilot. V10 has slightly reduced the number of areas which it is available.
- Auto lane change is now completely useless unless NoA is enabled, during my drive not a single auto lane change completed on regular auto pilot, NoA lane changes were generally OK unless there was a car anywhere near you in the target lane.
- NoA was very insistent that you had to be in a random lane of the motorway to follow your route, even cancelling said lane change only caused it to pop up again a few seconds later. Changing to the lane and back again cleared it.
- Merging onto a motorway was a total nope. (V9 would at least do a reasonable job if the target motorway was fairly clear)
- Autopilot disengaged around some sharper corners, this was probably my fault for steering a bit to hard following the curve of the road but that probably means the car wasn't following the curve quite as well as it should have been either.
- Phantom breaking when transitioning between NoA and regular AP (not new in V10)

All in all, I was quite disappointed, given some of the improvements in other areas eg slowing for roundabouts and T junctions plus the far better car/oncoming traffic tracking, I had higher hopes for it's abilities on a motorway.

Some of this will be down to the EU regulations, but to be blunt, if compliance with the regulations are causing the feature not to work properly or worse creating a dangerous situation (I can give some examples here) give the driver the option to override. There is no sensible world in which aborting a lane change half way though because you didn't complete it within a 5 second time out is the best option.

 

[Routybouty]

2019.32.11.1 is still trying to kill me on a particular exit on the way to work. At least it wakes me up in the morning. It still cannot handle deceleration lanes. It will speed up to full speed in them. Some are worse than others, although it works great if someone is in front of me!

On/off ramp lane line vagueness is still annoying as it tries to center itself. This would be one of the larger, to me, confidence boosters if this was corrected.

NoA lane changes from on/off ramps are annoying slow. The turn signal turns on and it has to be 4-5 seconds before it starts to get over.

I finally found out why the car slows down on a particular curve, not at all tight, you can easily take the curve at full speed. When going around this curve, and I'm in the left lane, it tracks a car in the right lane. I believe it thinks they need to merge over as it is near an on-ramp. I noticed that the car in front of me and the car to my right were both highlighted (I wish they highlighted followed cars blue to keep with the AP theme). I will pay more attention tomorrow. My guess is it will be ok if I'm in the right lane or there are no cars.

 

[thewishmaster]

I finally found out why the car slows down on a particular curve, not at all tight, you can easily take the curve at full speed. When going around this curve, and I'm in the left lane, it tracks a car in the right lane. I believe it thinks they need to merge over as it is near an on-ramp. I noticed that the car in front of me and the car to my right were both highlighted (I wish they highlighted followed cars blue to keep with the AP theme). I will pay more attention tomorrow. My guess is it will be ok if I'm in the right lane or there are no cars.

Do the 2 lanes merge together after the curve? That's what many of our on-ramps look like and that could be why it's doing that

 

[paaltio]

There is no sensible world in which aborting a lane change half way though because you didn't complete it within a 5 second time out is the best option.

To expand on this point, I feel like I really need feedback from the car whether it's aborting the lane change due to the timeout or something else. It happens so often I've gotten into the habit of just forcing the lane change with the steering wheel every time if it gets unsure. So it would be very helpful to get some "this time it's actually serious, really don't go in this lane!" type information on the off chance I didn't see a car in the blind spot.

Of course hopefully soon they just rather sort out the lane changes with the regulators. But in the mean time it does feel unnecessarily dangerous.

On that note, why do we even have it try to attempt lane changes when there's not enough time? As far as I can tell the lane change is still completely static, takes the same time to cross the line always. So until we have lane changes that adjust to traffic conditions, Tesla would always know exactly how long the lane change takes when they start it. So why the need to abort midway? They should be able to tell exactly how long it takes to get to the line before they start the maneuver.

 

[Carnage-]

It happens so often I've gotten into the habit of just forcing the lane change with the steering wheel every time if it gets unsure.

Likewise. I'm also waiting for the point I get pulled over as I'm fairly sure that from the outside it looks like a very drunken manoeuvre.

Compliance with "regulations" has made the car behave more erratically and dangerously. I'd really like an option to opt out of complying with them. Everything else "beta" in the car can be opted out of if you don't want to be testing potentially dangerous features while driving seems sensible to apply to same logic to paternalistic, unfit for purpose regulations.

 

[Routybouty]

Do the 2 lanes merge together after the curve? That's what many of our on-ramps look like and that could be why it's doing that

The two lanes merge just before and during the curve (finishes about half way through the curve. If I'm in the left lane, it will track the car in the right lane (not the merging lane) as well as whatever is in front of me. It starts tracking when the ramp is merging. Even if there is no one coming from the ramp, it still tracks the right lane. It doesn't even want to get in the right lane, so it's annoying. This is the only curve that I have seen this behaviour. This is also one of the few merging lanes that has that short dashing lane line. It's great as autosteer doesn't have to deal with lane vagueness.

I just got 2019.32.12.1, so we shall see what that brings.

 

[thewishmaster]

The two lanes merge just before and during the curve (finishes about half way through the curve. If I'm in the left lane, it will track the car in the right lane (not the merging lane) as well as whatever is in front of me. It starts tracking when the ramp is merging. Even if there is no one coming from the ramp, it still tracks the right lane. It doesn't even want to get in the right lane, so it's annoying. This is the only curve that I have seen this behaviour. This is also one of the few merging lanes that has that short dashing lane line. It's great as autosteer doesn't have to deal with lane vagueness.

I just got 2019.32.12.1, so we shall see what that brings.

I've seen something similar near me where there's a lane that's ending, but maybe 1/4 mile before it ends there's also an option of taking an off-ramp. I've had my car track exiting cars a few times even as they leave the freeway; pretty annoying because they will slow down as they take the off-ramp and there you are slowing down together with them. Haven't had the opportunity to test the same thing on v10 yet though.