V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

[darth_vad3r]

Also, if you're not aware, firmware 2019.20.2.1 has a notification that pops up when On-Route Battery Warmup is actively conditioning the battery. This will help provide feedback that the car is ready for an optimum charge power from the Supercharger.

That new notification looks great. I wonder if it lets you know if it's done preconditioning too. If people only navigate 10 minutes to a supercharger that's probably not normally going to be enough to precondition I would guess. Unless they happen to be at the optimal ambient temperature.

 

[MarcG]

Also, if you're not aware, firmware 2019.20.2.1 has a notification that pops up when On-Route Battery Warmup is actively conditioning the battery. This will help provide feedback that the car is ready for an optimum charge power from the Supercharger.

Has anyone seen any other charging sessions online using 2019.20.1 or later? We obviously want to see more from Fremont V3 but also 350kW/500A EU charger examples would be great.

Thanks for the heads-up on the new notification, I’ll look out for it next time I navigate to a supercharger.
I’m on 2019.20.2.1 now but I won’t be able to get to Fremont until next week on my way to Laguna Seca for Tesla Corsa #4.
Will definitely post my V3 session once I’m able to charge there.

 

[darth_vad3r]

@Zoomit, have you ever tried charting the profile with the x-axis labeled as % still, but using a time-scale?

If so, could you point me to one? It ocurred to me this may perhaps be another interesting way to look at the charge profile.

Hmm, or will it be interesting? I can't picture it ... I think it would be? LOL.

If you don't have timestamps, you could approximate time based on the average power between any 2 data points and call the time delta, dt = [dX (%) * Capacity (kWh) / P (kW)] at any given data point? e.g. dt = dX/P. P = dX/dt ... are we doing calculus now? Would this actually be adding any data/info to the visualization? Hmmm... or would total kWh added vs time be more interesting? Hmmm. No, I think stretching out the x-axis labelled as % to the time scale would be informative for the viewer. Not as a replacement to the existing charts, but as a supplement.

On a side-note, I wonder how much of the individual session charge profiles depends on time, and not just SoC, ignoring other variables like temperature. Like even if temps are identical, after X minutes has passed at max power (or whatever power rate) does the car decide to taper regardless of all other factors being the same? The convergence after certain percentages like 60%-ish lead me to believe that's not the case at least for that range above 60%, but perhaps this type if time-based, temperature-based, SoC-based combined logic will never lead to individual profiles matching each other closely unless everyone starts at exactly the same SoC? I guess this is where ABRPs large number of datapoints and charting the medians helps paint a better 'average' (or median) picture.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Here's a quick and dirty (heh, no pun intended) example using @DirtyT3sla's "data and ugly chart" ... top chart is the original [modified to end at 90% to match 2nd chart], bottom is with my modified x-axis using time* (as calculated by method in prior post) and then labelling the x-axis using the SoC column.

I think this would be more interesting on charts that show the ramp, higher peak and longer high-rate section and then a taper.

*Formulas used for time:

dX (%) = SoC minus prior_SoC
dE (kWh) = dX * 75 kWh
dT (h) = dE * 2 / (power + prior_power) [e.g. Energy / AveragePower]​

 

[Big Earl]

Here's a quick and dirty (heh, no pun intended) example using @DirtyT3sla's "data and ugly chart" ... top chart is the original [modified to end at 90% to match 2nd chart], bottom is with my modified x-axis using time* (as calculated by method in prior post) and then labelling the x-axis using the SoC column.

I think this would be more interesting on charts that show the ramp, higher peak and longer high-rate section and then a taper.
View attachment 421502



*Formulas used for time:

dX (%) = SoC minus prior_SoC
dE (kWh) = dX * 75 kWh
dT (h) = dE * 2 / (power + prior_power) [e.g. Energy / AveragePower]​

Like this? V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

 

[Zoomit]

That new notification looks great. I wonder if it lets you know if it's done preconditioning too. If people only navigate 10 minutes to a supercharger that's probably not normally going to be enough to precondition I would guess. Unless they happen to be at the optimal ambient temperature.

Concerning the ORBW notification, I had the same question. Wugz provided some pretty compelling evidence that it remains on the screen until the battery hits a "warm enough" threshold. I've been told that the target is 40C/104F.
2019.20.2 Supercharging is 20% Faster : teslamotors
On-Route Battery Warmup Measured : teslamotors

I'll unpack your other thoughts about other graphs this evening. There's a lot there.

 

[DirtyT3sla]

I wish I would have realized this while recording the video, but I don't think it conditioned because I navigated by voice...I should have tried clicking the super charger in the map and navigated that way. If true, it'd be why I didn't get 150kW when I arrived, and it would be a pretty big bug.

 

[Zoomit]

I wish I would have realized this while recording the video, but I don't think it conditioned because I navigated by voice...I should have tried clicking the super charger in the map and navigated that way. If true, it'd be why I didn't get 150kW when I arrived, and it would be a pretty big bug.

...maybe...I just tried to select a SC via the map and voice and the screen indications were identical for the resulting trip guidance.

 

[DirtyT3sla]

...maybe...I just tried to select a SC via the map and voice and the screen indications were identical for the resulting trip guidance.

I just went and tested it on lunch and got an even stranger result. Navigating to the Auburn Hills Supercharger via voice or selection on the map does not give me the warm up message (it's like 40 miles away maybe that's why? although it was only 15m in my video) but selecting the Ann Arbor Supercharger (less than 10 miles) via voice or map gave me the warm up message...so I have no idea.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Like this? V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

Yeah, essentially. But instead of SoC as a separate line graph, the x-axis time labels are %SoC instead of time. Same curve shape as your first chart. Comparing those two, the SoC-scale taper looks linear and time-scale curved. I think that is some extra visualization that’s useful.

It may be difficult to overlap multiple charts in a way to meaningfully compare them though. That would probably be best (on a time scale) with your SoC line? Or maybe the time-scale is just for standalone charts.

The current charts are probably a great way to compare multiple charts to try to flesh out a profile, assuming it’s mainly dependent on SoC, and not on current session duration (assuming other factors like preconditioning and temperature are constant).

 

[darth_vad3r]

I just went and tested it on lunch and got an even stranger result. Navigating to the Auburn Hills Supercharger via voice or selection on the map does not give me the warm up message (it's like 40 miles away maybe that's why? although it was only 15m in my video) but selecting the Ann Arbor Supercharger (less than 10 miles) via voice or map gave me the warm up message...so I have no idea.

What’s the temperature like? Maybe you only need 10-39 miles of driving time to warm up based on current temp.

 

[DirtyT3sla]

What’s the temperature like? Maybe you only need 10-39 miles of driving time to warm up based on current temp.

74F. Or maybe it won't start conditioning until getting closer? But again, Wednesday when I was recording I never got the message the entire drive there.

 

[darth_vad3r]

74F. Or maybe it won't start conditioning until getting closer? But again, Wednesday when I was recording I never got the message the entire drive there.

Hmm. When you used voice nav did you do that with the intent to precondition? So you said “x supercharger”, not just “x location”?

I am guessing it’s time-based, based on temperature ... but perhaps also SoC based. If you aren’t low enough to take advantage of full power, it maybe doesn’t bother?

You started charge at 35%, maybe it figured ... if I precondition for 10 minutes it will waste X energy and speed up the charge time only by Y seconds from 35 to 60%, but preconditioning will use an extra Z% which will also require more charge time ... so ... forget about it

 

[DirtyT3sla]

Hmm. When you used voice nav did you do that with the intent to precondition? So you said “x supercharger”, it just “x location”?

I am guessing it’s time-based, based on temperature ... but perhaps also SoC based. If you aren’t low enough to take advantage of full power, it maybe doesn’t bother?

You started charge at 35%, maybe it figured ... if I precondition for 10 minutes it will waste X energy and speed up the charge time only by Y seconds from 35 to 60%, but preconditioning will use an extra Z% which will also require more charge time ... so ... forget about it

Ha. I have no idea how smart it may be. But yes, all examples I said "Navigate to Auburn Hills Supercharger" and didn't get a conditioning message, whereas "Navigate to Ann Arbor Supercharger" got the message. I live 40 miles from the Ann Arbor Supercharger, so I can test when I get home if it will give me the conditioning message.

 

[Big Earl]

We got 2019.20.2.1 about 24 hours ago. I’ll be testing V2 charging speeds tomorrow. Sorry, Fremont is a bit of a drive.

Today’s attempt was kind of a dud. I ran the battery down to 11% (100 miles of driving) and navigated to the Supercharger. At no point did it say anything about ORBW. It ramped up to 141 kW pretty quickly but started to taper by 35% and was below 100 kW by 45%, so I gave up at that point. I suspect the charging equipment was getting hot, as it was 86°F and in direct sun. The cable was very warm when I unplugged.

I’ll go back again tomorrow night when it cools off and I’ve had a chance to run the battery back down.

 

[Zoomit]

Today’s attempt was kind of a dud. I ran the battery down to 11% (100 miles of driving) and navigated to the Supercharger. At no point did it say anything about ORBW. It ramped up to 141 kW pretty quickly but started to taper by 35% and was below 100 kW by 45%, so I gave up at that point. I suspect the charging equipment was getting hot, as it was 86°F and in direct sun. The cable was very warm when I unplugged.

I’ll go back again tomorrow night when it cools off and I’ve had a chance to run the battery back down.

Thanks for trying. I had a similar experience, except it never got above 134kW when initially plugging in at 22%. It decreased from there in ambient temps in the upper 80s F. My car also didn't give me any ORBW notification. The indicated charging power decreased when I turned on the HVAC, which means the charger output was limiting the session, not the battery. I suspect a hot charger, cable and/or connector. The station was half full, 3 of 6 used.

 

[EfficientWatts]

Started at like 49% charge, unfortunately no standalone stalls available in the beginning. Didn't pay attention too much. Did note that even though I started relatively high I am still hitting the speeds show on the graph. Normally it would be much lower. Curve change and battery precondition seems to help.

 

[Zoomit]

Started at like 49% charge, unfortunately no standalone stalls available in the beginning. Didn't pay attention too much. Did note that even though I started relatively high I am still hitting the speeds show on the graph. Normally it would be much lower. Curve change and battery precondition seems to help.
View attachment 421769
View attachment 421775

I'm getting an error for one of the pictures, but note that 85kW at 73% is actually a little higher that I've seen previously. Highest of ~10 datasets was previously 78kW at the same 73%.

 

[EfficientWatts]

I'm getting an error for one of the pictures, but note that 85kW at 73% is actually a little higher that I've seen previously. Highest of ~10 datasets was previously 78kW at the same 73%.

Here is the other picture again.


If it still errors it is 80 percent, 63kW.

Note that for some reason I have a bit of battery degradation? At 80% I get 380km range. Could explain the higher data point, but others could test this out. I'll try again later when the supercharger near me is less busy.

North America, 2019.20.2.1. LR AWD with 19869 km on the odometer.

 

[Zoomit]

Here is the other picture again.
View attachment 421777

If it still errors it is 80 percent, 63kW.

Note that for some reason I have a bit of battery degradation? At 80% I get 380km range. Could explain the higher data point, but others could test this out. I'll try again later when the supercharger near me is less busy.

North America, 2019.20.2.1. LR AWD with 19869 km on the odometer.

Thanks for the repost. 63kW at 80% is again higher than the 55kW seen previously. I'm not sure how the battery degradation, if it really exists, would effect the result.