Viable Portable Range Extenders?

[randvegeta]

Hello all.

Anyone have any solution for increasing range for long distance travel?

Realistically, I can't use my Model S for any proper long distance travel as there are few charging options in my region. Of course there is always the option to slow charge from a wall socket, but I don't consider that particularly viable unless in an absolute emergency.

I have a 2014 Model S 60, and it really is sufficient for 90+ % of my driving needs. But on occasion, I will drive for much greater distances than can be done on a single charge, and there are no super chargers, chademo chargers or even type 2 chargers anywhere on route. The best I can hope for is a wall socket, meaning 2.2kw (or 11km/h) charge rate. At that rate, it would take almost 30 hours to fully charge from 0.

In theory I could carry around some boat batteries and an inverter. Then I could charge the car from those boat batteries, but thats not efficient, and unless I fill the car with LITERALLY tons of batteries, I still have the same kind of problem when they run out of juice.

I would hate to use Petrol/Diesel generators, but in theory they too could be helpful. Wouldn't even need to carry around any fuel in a jerrycan as I could 'charge up' at a petrol station. Small generators could provide 7kw (or 35km/h) of charge. But that's not great either since its still only 7kw, and it would pretty much take up 70% of the trunk space. And worst of all... burns fuel to charge an electric car?

You know what would be great. If every petrol station offered car charging (for a fee). Even a regular CEE (red) 3-phase outlet in Europe could typically offer 22kw (enough for 110km/h), and if I'm not mistaken, this is fairly common in most of Europe. And petrol stations are well placed and often already have places to sit and eat, buy some basic supplies, use the bathroom. Why the heck don't petrol stations offer this? It's a fairly simple and easy setup and can reasonably charge for this, at probably considerably higher profit margins than petrol/diesel.

But since that is not an option, anyone else have any ideas?

 

[Dwdnjck]

Rent an ice. You will learn to hate them even more.

 

[randvegeta]

Rent an ice. You will learn to hate them even more.

I already have an ICE. I have a 2009 VW Golf 1.4 TSI, which is actually a fantastic little car in terms of efficiency, performance and practicality. Now my wife drives it.

When I was looking to upgrade, I wanted an all-round improvement. Plenty of nicer cars than a Golf, but most sacrifice efficiency, or performance. Hard to find a big 'luxury' car that is both fast and efficient.

Aside from the range, the Tesla is really the only option if you want something big, fast, 'luxurious' (and I use that term lightly) and 'green'. The only alternatives I was considering were either Jags or Range Rovers, and the Diesel options make me feel like I'm driving a tractor, while the petrol ones make me feel like I'm killing penguins!

 

[BerTX]

I see 40-50 charging locations listed on Plugshare, but I really have no idea of plug types or power there.

But in answer to your question, no it isn't practical to extend the range. The weight and aerodynamic drag of the trailer required to haul extra batteries would negate any range gains. Likewise a generator of sufficient size (10 kW or so) to charge at a higher rate than a wall plug would require a trailer to haul it. Using a small portable generator would give some range, but not more power or faster charging than a wall plug, plus having to carry the foul thing inside the car.

 

[randvegeta]

I see 40-50 charging locations listed on Plugshare, but I really have no idea of plug types or power there.

But in answer to your question, no it isn't practical to extend the range. The weight and aerodynamic drag of the trailer required to haul extra batteries would negate any range gains. Likewise a generator of sufficient size (10 kW or so) to charge at a higher rate than a wall plug would require a trailer to haul it. Using a small portable generator would give some range, but not more power or faster charging than a wall plug, plus having to carry the foul thing inside the car.

I was just reading about Hydrogen fuel cells, and though I agree with Elon/Tesla that the overall efficiency of Hydrogen is not really ideal, it would make, I think, for a great range extender. The fuel cells are not at all that large or heavy at all. And if you can squeeze 20kw out of it, that would be 100+ km/h cruising speed. Heck even a 10kw fuel cell, could make a massive difference to range if you could get that power out WHILE driving.

Then all we can carry hydrogen around, or refuel as needed at any available stations. Would be great for long distance..

 

[MP3Mike]

@Ingineer Had a made a trailer to power a Leaf while in motion as well as having an onboard CHAdeMO charger for other vehicles that ran on propane: Charging while moving?

 

[GSP]

@randvegeta,

There is plenty of electric power in Lithuania, I would think. You just need to get it the last few meters to connect it to your car. Search out the red and blue high power connectors at commercial sites. Are RV campgrounds with electric hookups common in Lithuania?

As I recall you have a US spec car. Maybe it can be converted to 3-phase with charger(s) from a European S. Along with a Euro Tesla UMC, This would allow 11 kW charging from comerical 3-phase outlets. With two chargers and a portable EVSE (avail from a Swiss company, I think) you can charge at 22 kW from commercial 3-phase outlets.

GSP

PS. I think this is the 22 kW EVSE I was thinking of. Bjørn Nyland borrowed one for his trip to North Cape before Superchargers were installed in northern Norway:

www.crohm.ch

PPS. There are some threads here about charging from generators. The car can be finicky about the quality of the generator power, but it can be done (when parked). You could get a trailer with a US spec 25 kW generator set, and not have to swap out the chargers in your car.

 

[randvegeta]

@randvegeta,

There is plenty of electric power in Lithuania, I would think. You just need to get it the last few meters to connect it to your car. Search out the red and blue high power connectors at commercial sites. Are RV campgrounds with electric hookups common in Lithuania?

As I recall you have a US spec car. Maybe it can be converted to 3-phase with charger(s) from a European S. Along with a Euro Tesla UMC, This would allow 11 kW charging from comerical 3-phase outlets. With two chargers and a portable EVSE (avail from a Swiss company, I think) you can charge at 22 kW from commercial 3-phase outlets.

GSP

PS. I think this is the 22 kW EVSE I was thinking of. Bjørn Nyland borrowed one for his trip to North Cape before Superchargers were installed in northern Norway:

www.crohm.ch

PPS. There are some threads here about charging from generators. The car can be finicky about the quality of the generator power, but it can be done (when parked). You could get a trailer with a US spec 25 kW generator set, and not have to swap out the chargers in your car.

I didn't mean charging in Lithuania. I do a lot of driving between Vilnius and Kaunas and in addition to actually having enough range to make the round trip, there is actually a charger half way between the two (1 in either direction) just in case. And if I get the Type2 to Type1 adapter, I can even charge at 7kw IN Kaunas at the shopping mall, if need be. And There are a number of chargers in Klaipeda too, where I pass to get to a place called Nida, by the sea.

No no, I did not mean driving in Lithuania. Lithuania is small enough that I almost never need to worry about it.

However, I have on a few occasions taken road trips to Poland, and according to Plugshare, there is very little in the way of charging infrastructure. I would have to stop every 200 or so km and spend the night to charge. There is some infra towards the west, but there is this 500-700km distance with no charging infra.

Also.. I can only dream of charging at 22kw if I buy a separate DC charger and hook it up to the red 3-phase outlet. That's not cheap and still I dont know how common those sockets are and how willing people may be to let me use them. And I dont see any possibility of building an adapter to get the 22-44kw from the Type2 outlets which are far more common. If I could find one of those for a reasonable price, would be nice!

 

[animorph]

A Powerwall in a flat trailer was an interesting option. I didn't run any numbers for it.

 

[transpondster]

just buy US version of CHAdeMO adapter

 

[BerTX]

A Powerwall in a flat trailer was an interesting option. I didn't run any numbers for it.

Just on the surface, a Powerwall is 14 kWh @$5500 plus development cost. Dragging the trailer will probably burn that up, so multiple PWII units would be required.

Then there's the little matter that it is illegal to pull a trailer in the EU with a Model S, as I understand it.

 

[GSP]

.....

No no, I did not mean driving in Lithuania. Lithuania is small enough that I almost never need to worry about it.

However, I have on a few occasions taken road trips to Poland, and according to Plugshare, there is very little in the way of charging infrastructure. I would have to stop every 200 or so km and spend the night to charge. There is some infra towards the west, but there is this 500-700km distance with no charging infra.

Also.. I can only dream of charging at 22kw if I buy a separate DC charger and hook it up to the red 3-phase outlet. That's not cheap and still I dont know how common those sockets are and how willing people may be to let me use them. And I dont see any possibility of building an adapter to get the 22-44kw from the Type2 outlets which are far more common. If I could find one of those for a reasonable price, would be nice!

If there are plenty of Type 2 outlets, then "all" that is needed is to convert your car to Euro spec charging. The Type 2 inlet, cables, and three phase chargers should be available from a salvaged EU car. The hard part would to get the software in the US spec car to utilize the chargers, but there may be a way to get this done.

GSP

 

[miimura]

I didn't mean charging in Lithuania. I do a lot of driving between Vilnius and Kaunas and in addition to actually having enough range to make the round trip, there is actually a charger half way between the two (1 in either direction) just in case. And if I get the Type2 to Type1 adapter, I can even charge at 7kw IN Kaunas at the shopping mall, if need be. And There are a number of chargers in Klaipeda too, where I pass to get to a place called Nida, by the sea.

No no, I did not mean driving in Lithuania. Lithuania is small enough that I almost never need to worry about it.

However, I have on a few occasions taken road trips to Poland, and according to Plugshare, there is very little in the way of charging infrastructure. I would have to stop every 200 or so km and spend the night to charge. There is some infra towards the west, but there is this 500-700km distance with no charging infra.

Also.. I can only dream of charging at 22kw if I buy a separate DC charger and hook it up to the red 3-phase outlet. That's not cheap and still I dont know how common those sockets are and how willing people may be to let me use them. And I dont see any possibility of building an adapter to get the 22-44kw from the Type2 outlets which are far more common. If I could find one of those for a reasonable price, would be nice!

This piece of kit is what you really need. 22kW Red Socket or Type-2 to CHAdeMO output. The only problem is that it costs nearly what your Golf costs.

MDC22 » Designwerk GmbH » Denkfabrik der Elektromobilität

 

[randvegeta]

This piece of kit is what you really need. 22kW Red Socket or Type-2 to CHAdeMO output. The only problem is that it costs nearly what your Golf costs.

MDC22 » Designwerk GmbH » Denkfabrik der Elektromobilität

Jesus Christ! 18k EUR? Seriously? Makes EU Teslas with built in chargers seem like a bargain.

My ICE isn't new, so it cost about 2.5x more than the value of my Golf. Crazy! I'd rather slow charge at 7kw.

 

[Testwa]

Just on the surface, a Powerwall is 14 kWh @$5500 plus development cost. Dragging the trailer will probably burn that up, so multiple PWII units would be required.

Then there's the little matter that it is illegal to pull a trailer in the EU with a Model S, as I understand it.

Put the powerwall on the roof then

I guess charging from any other type of carry-on battery will not be that quick. Even two powerwalls in parallel would require several hours for just some extra km. And portable diesel generator (I mean fitting in the trunk) will not really bring major advantage because charging for long trips is still way too slow.

So, as having a ICE still at hand, take this one for the long trips for now and hope that in your region the charging stations will ramp up as quickly as it happens in several regions around the world and your problem will be solved hopefully within some months.

 

[miimura]

Jesus Christ! 18k EUR? Seriously? Makes EU Teslas with built in chargers seem like a bargain.

My ICE isn't new, so it cost about 2.5x more than the value of my Golf. Crazy! I'd rather slow charge at 7kw.

As far as I can tell, the price you said does not include any input or output cables, so the price of a useful configuration would actually be over 20k Euros.

 

[GSP]

@randvegeta,

Since you have a Chademo adapter, the most practical solution would be more Chademo chargers in Poland where you need them. DC Fast charging is really the best range extender. The combination of 7 kW at Type 2 outlets and 50 kW at Chademo stations would be a workable charging solution for most usage, even if not as ideal as Euro-spec Tesla's with 3-phase 22 kW Type 2 (only 16 kW now?) and 135 kW superchargers.

It looks like there are about 12 Chademo stations in Poland now. You could contact the owners to see if you can arrange to access them. You could also ask if they would be interested in installing more Chademo chargers in locations that you need and that would enable more routes in Poland. Since the owners may be local and not interested, ask them if they know any businesses in Poland that would be interested.

This would be the most pratical solution for you, and it will help other EV owners as well. It will take your time, but you would not need to pay for any modifications or accessories for your US-spec car.

CHAdeMO Map

Good Luck,

GSP

 

[randvegeta]

@GSP,

Chademo is the next best thing after SuperChargers. Actually, SuperCharging isnt even enabled on my S 60 so Chademo is the best I can hope for.

The problem is that in Poland, there are even very few Type2 (22kw) charge points (I would get 7kw). 7kw can be doable for long distance travel with good planning. It would take around 2.5 - 3 hours to drive 300 or so km. Could do a morning drive (say 8am - 11am), stop for an 8 hour charge + a nice day out, followed by another 300km drive the same day. So 600km could be done in 1 day with relative ease and comfort.

The problem comes when all you have access to is a 10-12amp wall socket where it would take more than 24 hours.

Chademo would take about 2 hours for a full charge from practically 0, so these spaced out every 100km or so would be ideal!