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(Video) Woman Claims M3 Drove by itself thru Home

What do you think happened?

  • She pressed the accelerator.

    Votes: 98 99.0%
  • She pressed the brake and the car just smashed up her house out of spite of her owning a Jaguar too.

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Total voters
    99
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Hey all,

Not here to post FUD. Just showing this woman who had a M3 for 4 days and claimed the car had a mind of its own when she parked it in her driveway.

San Jose Woman Claims New Tesla Auto-Accelerated Into Garage

After watching the video a few times, I call bs. You see this in ICE vehicles all the time. Someone thinks they are pushing the brakes, then they panic, then they push down harder.
 
Yeah, that looks like pedal misapplication. Especially since she was a brand new owner.
yes, I was thinking there is the "new owner factor" that might add into that issue. I recall needing to get used to the MX.
So she says she is never going to drive another Tesla again. AMEN. Please don't. I would be afraid to have her behind me on the highway. Go back to driving your ICE, or 4 leg animal, or bicycle or whatever it was you were previously driving.

Side note: Maybe we should rename the thread.... "Woman wants new kitchen remodel, and blames Tesla" :eek::rolleyes:
 
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Although I voted the driver at fault, as a former Prius owner we faced charges at Toyota of "Unintended Acceleration" in the 2008-2010 time frame. This led to a lot of technical investigation helped in part because the Toyota schematics were in the repair manuals. In one case, a college instructor connected a decade box (set of resistors) to the accelerator wires and with a reporter driving the car, flipped a switch and the car took off without an error code:

Now the professor modified the Toyota wiring to induce two faults: (1) connecting two accelerator pedals together, and; (2) setting a resistance that signaled full throttle. He converted a duplex system into a mono system and then set a fault . . . echos of the Boeing 737 MAX flipping between two angle of attack sensors which allowed one failed sensor to fly the airplane into the ground . . . twice. Without the schematics and a test part, I can't tell if something like this is possible in our Model 3.

In the Toyota "Unintended Acceleration" case, the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened up an investigation and a lot of skilled investigators reported their findings including NASA. Toyota went with Hall effect sensors replacing the dual-pots and other manufacturers revealed techniques for detecting a wiring problem. One of the best was using different rates between the two accelerator position so a "short" could be detected. With parallel resistance rates, tying the two sensors together can not be detected. Add a second fault, a fixed resistance, and the car acts as if the accelerator was floored. So what data has NHTSA collected about our Model 3:
2018 TESLA MODEL 3 4 DR RWD

Scroll down and you'll see 57 complaints of which there were significant numbers of "Unintended Acceleration:"

Date ID type
05/22/19 11209238 acceleration
05/15/19 11207877 acceleration
05/07/19 11206155 acceleration
04/22/19 11202909 acceleration
04/16/19 11196764 acceleration
11/30/18 11164094 acceleration
11/26/18 11154132 acceleration
10/03/18 11133222 acceleration
09/28/18 11132177 acceleration
09/01/18 11124067 acceleration
08/02/18 11119991 acceleration
07/27/18 11115496 acceleration
05/22/18 11097159 acceleration
05/10/18 11092830 acceleration
05/04/18 11091970 acceleration

HYPOTHESIS

These intermittent failures suggests there may be one or more, random problems. For example, my cell phone failed to work as a key yesterday. So I cleared the problem by:
  1. Power reset iPhone
  2. Brake reset Model 3
Unfortunately, I was in a hurry and did them in parallel so I can't identify a specific fault. A second example was when I lost Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC), I recovered it by doing:
  1. Display reset while driving
Intermittent problems seldom occur in isolation. Resolving one can leave a second one that has to be identified and fixed. So we can't rule out a random, accelerator circuit problem. Absent analysis of the Model 3 schematics, there may be a fault mode that can lead to unintended acceleration.

Recommended Follow-up
  • Document the problem - file both with the NHTSA and Tesla. It makes sense to first file with NHTSA and then cite the incident number in an e-mail via your Tesla Account email. Include any corrective actions and whether or not they worked.
  • Serial attempts to clear - do one change at a time and see if it clears the problem: (1) iPhone power cycle if involved; (2) Display reset, and; (2) Brake reset. There is a "Power" option in the display software that may be included.
Bob Wilson
 
I think she had the accelerator pressed lightly so the car was regen braking, then when she wanted to slow down, she assumed her foot was on the brake...

If it was indeed human error this is the likely cause. As you mentioned, being a new Tesla driver it is possible when the regen braking occurring the muscle memory signaled to her brain that I must be on the brake so go ahead and press it some more to stop.

What about that obstacle aware acceleration setting? Was that on and if she was accelerating why didn’t the system cut the acceleration?
 
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Hey all,

Not here to post FUD. Just showing this woman who had a M3 for 4 days and claimed the car had a mind of its own when she parked it in her driveway.

San Jose Woman Claims New Tesla Auto-Accelerated Into Garage

After watching the video a few times, I call bs. You see this in ICE vehicles all the time. Someone thinks they are pushing the brakes, then they panic, then they push down harder.

The truth... :cool:

upload_2019-6-12_20-18-50.png
 
If it was indeed human error this is the likely cause. As you mentioned, being a new Tesla driver it is possible when the regen braking occurring the muscle memory signaled to her brain that I must be on the brake so go ahead and press it some more to stop.

What about that obstacle aware acceleration setting? Was that on and if she was accelerating why didn’t the system cut the acceleration?
What setting is that?

Honestly it sounds like the women wasn't even sure if she hit the brake or not, it's likely the media twisting the whole thing to get views.
 
it's idiots like this that deter Tesla (as well as legislators) from releasing FSD. people will place blame on technology as much as they can if they think they can get away with it or even make money off of it. it's downright fraudulent......

Tesla is going to have to start installing a camera in the driver's foot well :rolleyes:
 
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I think she had the accelerator pressed lightly so the car was regen braking, then when she wanted to slow down, she assumed her foot was on the brake...

^^THIS.

I can personally attest to that. I was giving a test drive to a friend who has never driven any electric car. As he pulled out of the curb for the first timeph on the narrow street and then immediately wanted to slow down to take a left turn. The car slowed down by itself as he lifted his leg off the accelerator, but to get it to a complete stop he ended up pressing the accelerator instead of brake.

We both discussed how as to how this could happen to someone who has driven for over 40 years. After much introspection and scenario analysis, one thing that came out was, he said he never expected the car to slow down, when he lifted his leg off accelerator. So he believes his reflexes told him that he is pressing on the brake pedal for the car to slow down .... so he pressed it harder to get it to a complete stop.

I am guessing a majority of the SUA cases fall into this category - it is always when the car had to gently slow down to a stop this happens.
 
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^^THIS.

I can personally attest to that. I was giving a test drive to a friend who has never driven any electric car. As he pulled out of the curb for the first timeph on the narrow street and then immediately wanted to slow down to take a left turn. The car slowed down by itself as he lifted his leg off the accelerator, but to get it to a complete stop he ended up pressing the accelerator instead of brake.

We both discussed how as to how this could happen to someone who has driven for over 40 years. After much introspection and scenario analysis, one thing that came out was, he said he never expected the car to slow down, when he lifted his leg off accelerator. So he believes his reflexes told him that he is pressing on the brake pedal for the car to slow down .... so he pressed it harder to get it to a complete stop.

I am guessing a majority of the SUA cases fall into this category - it is always when the car had to gently slow down to a stop this happens.
It makes sense but I do find it odd. I guess it's probably less of an issue for people that have driven manuals in the past.
 
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Please read these:

More "unexpected" acceleration stuff... ugh.

Ok, first, the Model 3 logs are physically accessible on the logging SD card in the car PC, which is slightly less inaccessible than in the S/X. I've copied my own a while ago, and they're very similar to the S/X, although lots of IDs are redone. So, wouldn't be too difficult to check this with physical access to the car.

That said....... please just don't bother.

I just recently finished what I believe is my tenth private investigation of cases of "unexpected" acceleration in a Tesla where the owners have claimed the car accelerated on its own and they didn't press the pedal, yada yada.

Every single instance has shown that the accelerator pedal was physically pressed to the floor (or nearly) during the event. This is monitored by 100Hz reporting of the two sensors in the pedal by two independent systems (a "pedal monitor" and "drive inverter cross-check", only changes are logged... and this actually used to be 10Hz logging, but Tesla bumped it up probably in response to claims like this). If it were an electronic issue or the car just decided to massively accelerate on its own somehow (not actually possible, for the record), the curve of both sensors would not match perfectly with baseline logs of me mashing my own pedal. In every case I investigated the four logging points for pedal position changes matched perfectly with a physical pedal doing the exact same action. Every. Single. One.

After being unequivocally proven, the parties contracting me to somehow exonerate them have essentially begged me to not stand by my stance of publicly posting the data or sharing it with anyone. (If you may recall, I've offered to investigate such instances free of charge in exchange for the rights to basically do whatever I want with the data, including posting in relevant threads or stories.) Out of respect for those involved, I've honored such requests.

So, sorry for your accident, OP, but it's just not the car's fault. End of story.

Long story short, I think I'm going to stop wasting time on such investigations.

It likely has happened in other vehicles, you likely just had time to correct the mistake in your pre-EV vehicles. Unlike their sluggish ICE counterparts, the Model S/X/3 will immediately respond to a throttle request. You don't have the same time to react, consciously or unconsciously, to the mistake before action is taken by the vehicle. In the case of the S/X/3, you're likely to have moved the vehicle a significant distance prior to figuring out that you screwed up, where in an ICE, especially an automatic, the engine is likely to rev and gears need to be changed, yada yada, in response to the throttle mash... generally enough time to realize your error. I've almost made a pedal misapplication mistake several times in the past with multiple different vehicles... fortunately not in any catastrophic situation. We're not infallible creatures. You get in a zone of habit, feel like you know what's going on, and when something unexpected happens you'll swear you were doing everything normally the way you've done it 10000 times before, when in reality you just screwed up. It happens.

Tesla's accelerator pedal is actually the exact same drive-by-wire pedal used in several other manufacturer's vehicles. It's highly proven technology over decades. Nothing special at this point. No Tesla secret sauce here. Just two hall effect sensors with slightly different curves for redundancy and position validation. If they don't agree, the car doesn't move. If one has an issue, the car reduces power and gives an error. I've personally never seen one of these throttle assemblies have a problem because they're literally as basic as these things can get. It's plastic, a spring to return the pedal to rest, and two hall effect sensors for positioning. They're rock solid on reliability and used in millions of vehicles.

Tesla's side for sensing this goes even further to improve safety. They have two independent systems monitoring and logging the pedal sensors, isolated from one another. They both log the read position from both sensors. If anything doesn't exactly agree, the car doesn't move, gives an error, and reduces power to the point where you can barely do 0-60 in a minute.

The autopilot side of things also is not capable of accelerating the car at any major speed. The AP system just tells the motor, "this is how fast I want to be going and this is how quickly I want to get there" and the inverter firmware maps out a curve to get the car there based on the data, clamped internally to extremely reasonable values as far as acceleration goes. (Deceleration is another story, since AP is capable of commanding full regen and full braking.) The fastest AP can do 0-60 on its own is pretty pathetic, overall. I've tried it. The car will not launch even when commanded to go to 90 MPH at max longitudinal acceleration rate. It just gradually ramps speed, just as if you were at a light behind a vehicle with AP engaged. Nothing sudden about it.

I went a step further and modified the section of inverter code that limits the acceleration rate. No dice. The two other systems inside the drive unit immediately sent the system into limp mode when I tried to command massive acceleration digitally. To be able to do a full digital launch with no pedal application I had to modify the firmware in three different systems to bypass probably two dozen different safety checks. Long story short, it's simply not possible for the car to command massive acceleration on its own.

Going even further, the throttle map for acceleration is super accurate. It can interpolate 2^16 throttle positions with reasonable accuracy... which is impressive, since the ADC is technically something like 10-bit, and we're working with a throw distance of maybe a couple of inches at the end of the pedal. (Edit: Correction/clarification: The crosscheck ADC is 10-bit, the primary is actually 16-bit and doubled for redundancy on each input... so the throttle position is actually read 8 times in hardware for comparison.)

Finally, if the brake is applied, three different devices report this. There's the brake pedal switch, the iBooster, and the ESP modules. All are able to sense and report brake pedal application, and the three systems in the drive unit accept these in a binary OR fashion (if any report the brake is applied, the brake is applied). If the brake is applied even a tiny bit, the car is incapable of accelerating at full power. At best, if the accelerator is already pressed, the car will apply something like 5% of power for about a second before fully cutting power due to both pedals being applied. Those that think they had their foot on the brake and suddenly accelerated, try it yourself. Go somewhere safe with open space in front of you, apply the brake, and mash the accelerator. You'll either go no where, or at most move at super low power for less than a second (depending on the exact internal state of the system, which would be too complicated to get into full detail here).


Overall, I have a lot of beef with Tesla over many things... but this is one aspect where they did their homework and did it right. I'd argue that Tesla's throttle setup is probably at least twice as safe if not more than any other drive-by-wire throttle system out there. There are some many independent checks that it is just impossible for the car to do something like full acceleration without the drive explicitly commanding it, either intentionally or unintentionally, via the throttle pedal.


Of course, humans are going to human... and thus never fully accept responsibility for their actions or mistakes when there is a way to push that onto someone or something else. But my advice is to just get over it, keep the car in chill mode, and move on. In this particular case, your wife made a mistake, caused some damage to the vehicle, and that's the end of it. No sense trying to argue otherwise... especially in the case of a Tesla vehicle with its extensive logging and redundancy. Should someone ever take such a case to court and try to go against the data, I couldn't see how a reasonable judge or jury could possibly see this as anything other than what it is.