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VW Fallout: $2.0 Billion for ZEV Infrastructure Buildout
- Thread starter RubberToe
- Start date
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- Energy Environment Policy
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Regardless of what happens, I think that what he has accomplished to date will change history.
Elon's company is building 1,000 cars per week with an average selling price of around $70,000. As brilliant as Nikoka was, he never had that kind of revenue at his disposal. Elon also has a proven record of being able to grow businesses. Nothing to date would seem to indicate that he will end up bankrupt. Not withstanding the endless stream of pontificating from the naysayers whom he is killing off.
RT
I’ve been expecting this announcement for awhile. I also wrote about Daimler’s announced support for Plug & Charge last April at my website here.
This is today’s news:
Electrify America working with Hubject to add “Plug & Charge” support
This is today’s news:
Electrify America working with Hubject to add “Plug & Charge” support
This is likely to some degree to only confuse things more. Note that this requires supporting hardware and software in the car. Some older CCS charging cars do not have the hardware to support this. So some cars may never be able to make use of the PnC capability if I'm interpreting that correctly.
Yea, I'm reading that correctly. Once they upgrade these EA chargers with the new PnC capability I'll bet you a Krispy Kreme donut that they have even more issues than they do now, if not bricking the entire fast charger for good.
RT
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I’ll bet the updates won’t be “bricking the entire fast charger for good” but not for Krispy Kreme. Maybe Dunkin’.Once they upgrade these EA chargers with the new PnC capability I'll bet you a Krispy Kreme donut that they have even more issues than they do now, if not bricking the entire fast charger for good.
From a recent review of the I-Pace by Electrek: Fred Lambert on Twitter
I wonder on which side the problem exists.
Fred Lambert ✔ @FredericLambert
First time using an @ElectrifyAm station. I thought I could use the full 100kW fast-charging capacity of the @Jaguar I-Pace, but all chargers were capped at 50kW. On top of it, nonE of the CCS chargers actually worked with the I-Pace, a CCS compatible car.
I wonder on which side the problem exists.
Good question.
I don’t doubt that Fred had some kind of difficulty charging there although he never mentioned calling the Electrify America “1-800” help number posted on the station and left the impression that he didn’t think to look up the site on PlugShare where the 50 kW charger power limitations are clearly documented —this is a community metro charging site, not a highway charging site.
It’s my opinion, but I don’t fully trust his narrative on this issue. He seems to have sensationalized things a bit.
Before writing his Electrek I-PACE review article, he tweeted about his problems charging the car at that Electrify America site to his personal Twitter account:
In another tweet he said:
That makes it sound to me like he was somewhere rural with no other fast or even slow charging opportunities nearby or along the way back home.
He didn’t identify the specific Electrify America site, either on his personal tweets or in his I-PACE review article, but he tweeted a photo which confirms the actual location. I’ve charged there myself in my Bolt EV.
I pointed out in a reply to his tweet about “we could have been screwed... [but] we can actually make it back home with 50 miles of range” that there was a 30A J1772 dispenser at the site as well and the nearest other 50 kW CCS charger (a ChargePoint unit) was less than 2 miles away and there were 2 EVgo locations with different 50 kW charger hardware less than 5 miles away.
Although he never mentioned where this event happened, it’s metro LA — he was surrounded by CCS chargers — but he pretended or at least left the impression that he would have been screwed except that he had more than 50 miles of range left in the battery and home was closer than that.
Whew, just barely made it home!!!
His charging troubles were actually at the Country Hills Shopping Center in Torrance, California as indicated on this PlugShare map below (the closest other 50 kW charger is so close that it is hidden by the “Country Hills Shoppi...” pop-up location label)
The orange icons indicate CCS fast charging sites nearby.
When I pointed out to him on Twitter that this was a fake charging crisis of sorts he was unhappy and banned me from his twitter feed.
"You are an angry person."
I'm gonna hafta remember that line, it's a good one, nicely deflects blame back onto the other person. Maybe I'll try it out on my wife.
Please, @JeffN, spare me your usual angry follow-up.
Angrily yours,
Alan
I'm gonna hafta remember that line, it's a good one, nicely deflects blame back onto the other person. Maybe I'll try it out on my wife.
Please, @JeffN, spare me your usual angry follow-up.
Angrily yours,
Alan
This isn’t specific to Electrify America but it hits them hard since all of their 150+ kW CCS cables come from the same supplier with the safety issue.
CCS liquid-cooled charging cable safety issue causes sudden widespread service shutdowns
CCS liquid-cooled charging cable safety issue causes sudden widespread service shutdowns
I’ve updated the article this morning.
European charging providers like Ionity and Fastned have also taken their cables out of service.
It’s looking now like it may have been a single cable failure at a private testing lab that for some reason was still using a prototype cable of an older design not used for the final production cables installed at public charging locations.
Just a guess — maybe they were testing the old design and the new design side by side under stricter/tougher testing standards? I really don’t know.
European charging providers like Ionity and Fastned have also taken their cables out of service.
It’s looking now like it may have been a single cable failure at a private testing lab that for some reason was still using a prototype cable of an older design not used for the final production cables installed at public charging locations.
Just a guess — maybe they were testing the old design and the new design side by side under stricter/tougher testing standards? I really don’t know.
Cable maker Huber+Suhner issues an update on the liquid-cooled CCS cable safety issue.
Huber+Suhner issues statement on liquid-cooled charging cable safety issue
Huber+Suhner issues statement on liquid-cooled charging cable safety issue
Unsurprisingly, Porsche (VW Group) is leveraging Electrify America as part of their marketing campaign for the Taycan.
https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/28...ill-get-free-ultra-fast-charging-for-3-years/
https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/28...ill-get-free-ultra-fast-charging-for-3-years/
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Actually, very disappointing... VW is rewarded again for their bad behavior.
Porsche Taycan owners will get three years of free charging on Electrify America’s network
Electrek’s Take
That’s actually disappointing. It feels like a step back from having their own network. Porsche’s previous plans felt like the most significant effort in fast-charging from an automaker since Tesla’s Supercharger network. Instead, they are going to rely on a third-party network.
Though it happens that the third-party network is owned by their parent company. What it shows really is that CARB and the EPA forcing Volkswagen to spend their settlement money on Electrify America is not really a “punishment” for Dieselgate. They are just using it for their own charging network.
Porsche Taycan owners will get three years of free charging on Electrify America’s network
Electrek’s Take
That’s actually disappointing. It feels like a step back from having their own network. Porsche’s previous plans felt like the most significant effort in fast-charging from an automaker since Tesla’s Supercharger network. Instead, they are going to rely on a third-party network.
Though it happens that the third-party network is owned by their parent company. What it shows really is that CARB and the EPA forcing Volkswagen to spend their settlement money on Electrify America is not really a “punishment” for Dieselgate. They are just using it for their own charging network.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I think the point was to speed up the adoption of EVs and VW has responded. They had to hit them over the head hard but it worked.Actually, very disappointing... VW is rewarded again for their bad behavior.
Porsche Taycan owners will get three years of free charging on Electrify America’s network
Electrek’s Take
That’s actually disappointing. It feels like a step back from having their own network. Porsche’s previous plans felt like the most significant effort in fast-charging from an automaker since Tesla’s Supercharger network. Instead, they are going to rely on a third-party network.
Though it happens that the third-party network is owned by their parent company. What it shows really is that CARB and the EPA forcing Volkswagen to spend their settlement money on Electrify America is not really a “punishment” for Dieselgate. They are just using it for their own charging network.
I doubt the free charging will be paid from the settlement money.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I really dislike being put in a position where it even might appear as though I am defending VW but I don't think your criticism is fair since all CCS cars ( and maybe even a CHAdeMO or three) can use the EA network. Contrast e.g. with the Tesla Supercharger network in Europe that is also migrating to CCS but will only charge Tesla cars.
After further testing the final production cables are being put back into service.
Huber+Suhner revokes safety warning, Electrify America reactivates charging cables
Jeff’s Take
Fred failed to read between the lines of Porsche’s earlier press releases.
Porsche’s previous statements did not explicitly call-out Electrify America as providing most of the hundreds of charging locations that Taycan drivers could expect to use but it wasn’t hard to surmise that this would be the case.
Well duh. CARB has said as much themselves.
The punishment was meted out in the form of many billions of dollars in other fines and repair and buyback orders. I’ve lost count of the final amount but I think it’s well over $10 billion in the US and they are now having to pay out in settlements in other countries.
For example, as part of Appendix D of the CARB and EPA settlement VW has had to contribute $2.9 billion into an EPA environmental trust fund that will be used to fund grants to state and local government agencies. That counts as a punishment since VW doesn’t control that money.
However, Appendix C which funds Electrify America is not a punishment. It is coerced investment with some minimal oversight controls to ensure the money gets spent on zero carbon emission infrastructure. But, it is VW spending on VW-owned infrastructure. It can be part of VW’s overall business plan but it has to be open to drivers of all cars and cannot be branded as VW. Although the charging must be standards-based and non-proprietary they are not required to equally support both CHAdeMO and CCS and they don’t.
In my opinion, this is ultimately good because encourages VW to spend the money effectively (or at least what they think is effective) as a way of supporting the marketing of their cars against Tesla and others. This has been part of encouraging VW to make a real business commitment to competing for EV sales rather than just more low-sales minimal “compliance”.
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