Wall connector charger questions (install, tax credits, etc)

[Noflash]

Hello,

Just got enough referral points to get the wall connector charger. I don't think I would have ordered it otherwise, but didn't see anything else to order as enticing. I've been using just the mobile connector on a 110-outlet for the past two years and it will be nice to have the flexibility of the quick charge.

I have a few questions:

1. I assume since I didn't spend any money on this charger I cannot claim any CO-State/Federal tax credits on the item, but can claim on the install?
2. The install quote is $1600-1800 which seems high, but my panel box is on the opposite side of the house and the electrician will need to use a lot of copper to get to the garage. Is this reasonable?
3. I back in to the right side of my 3-car garage, so the ideal location for my car is on the right wall closest to the charge port. This is ideal for our 1-Tesla family, but if we were to ever get a second Tesla would the wall connector charger be easy to move or should I rearrange the cars in the garage to find a spot that would be better to reach two cars? (this is a good question for the electrician, but I'd like to hear from your experiences)
4. The electrician was planing on running a 50 amp wire to a 15-40 connector, but the next day a referral went through and I asked if he could connect the wall charger. He said no problem. Does he need to wire for 60 amp output now?
5. Do I also need to order the Wall Connector Wirebox Kit & Wall Connector Fastener Kit or does the Wall Connector come with everything I need by default?
6. I couldn't order the Universal Wall Connector with the credits, is there an adapter that goes from the Tesla Wall Connector to a non-Tesla EV?

Thanks in advance, nf

 

[Cosmacelf]

You can claim install costs for a tax credit. Get a second quote, and requote for a 60A hard wire install. He should use different wire. Don’t let him use NM-B as that is likely what he’ll want to use. I would recommend MC cable for such a long install.

I would recommend getting a second EVSE for a second car if/when you get one. On that note, you could ask for a 100A garage subpanel and then get a 60A circuit from that. That would make the second EV install cheaper and easier.

You don’t need to order extra stuff for the Wall Connector.

 

[Noflash]

You can claim install costs for a tax credit. Get a second quote, and requote for a 60A hard wire install. He should use different wire. Don’t let him use NM-B as that is likely what he’ll want to use. I would recommend MC cable for such a long install.

I would recommend getting a second EVSE for a second car if/when you get one. On that note, you could ask for a 100A garage subpanel and then get a 60A circuit from that. That would make the second EV install cheaper and easier.

You don’t need to order extra stuff for the Wall Connector.

Thanks, that is good advice.

 

[jcanoe]

The Wall Connector can be installed, configured for any 240V circuit rated from 15 amps up to and including 60 amps (15/20/30/40/50/60). If your electrician advises that your current electrical panel and service can support adding a 50 amp circuit but not a 60 amp circuit due to limited remaining capacity then the Wall Connector can be easily configured for use with the 50 amp circuit. Any of the 240V circuits would enable you to charge your Model Y many times faster than your current 120V/12 amp charging setup.

Let the electrician choose the type of wire for the installation. The Wall Connector only requires 2 wires (plus a ground wire.) The 14-50 receptacle requires 3 wires (plus the ground wire.) NM-B (commonly termed Romex) wire is the most popular type of wire for home wiring but there are limitations. (NM-B wire cannot be buried or installed in wet or damp locations.) 6 gauge NM-B is only rated for 50 amps (can used for EV charging at 40 amps.) 4 gauge NM-B wire would be required for 60 amps (can be used for EV charging at 48 amps.) 4 gauge NM-B is much more expensive, may not be as readily available as 6 gauge NM-B. (Don't let the electrician install 6 gauge NM-B wire if they are installing a 60 amp circuit for EV charging. Sometimes even experienced electricians get this wrong and use 6 gauge when 4 gauge is required for 60 amp circuit used for EV charging.

Metallic Clad (MC) wire is also popular and has similar installation limitations as NM-B (MC wire can't be buried or installed in wet or damp environments.) The major difference with MC wire is that there is no need for conduit as the outer sheathing of the MC cable is a flexible metal jacket. Unlike NM-B, 6 gauge MC wire is suitable for use with 60 amp circuits for EV charging (continuous 48 amp load.)

 

[Noflash]

The Wall Connector can be installed, configured for any 240V circuit rated from 15 amps up to and including 60 amps (15/20/30/40/50/60). If your electrician advises that your current electrical panel and service can support adding a 50 amp circuit but not a 60 amp circuit due to limited remaining capacity then the Wall Connector can be easily configured for use with the 50 amp circuit. Any of the 240V circuits would enable you to charge your Model Y many times faster than your current 120V/12 amp charging setup.

Let the electrician choose the type of wire for the installation. The Wall Connector only requires 2 wires (plus a ground wire.) The 14-50 receptacle requires 3 wires (plus the ground wire.) NM-B (commonly termed Romex) wire is the most popular type of wire for home wiring but there are limitations. (NM-B wire cannot be buried or installed in wet or damp locations.) 6 gauge NM-B is only rated for 50 amps (can used for EV charging at 40 amps.) 4 gauge NM-B wire would be required for 60 amps (can be used for EV charging at 48 amps.) 4 gauge NM-B is much more expensive, may not be as readily available as 6 gauge NM-B. (Don't let the electrician install 6 gauge NM-B wire if they are installing a 60 amp circuit for EV charging. Sometimes even experienced electricians get this wrong and use 6 gauge when 4 gauge is required for 60 amp circuit used for EV charging.

Metallic Clad (MC) wire is also popular and has similar installation limitations as NM-B (MC wire can't be buried or installed in wet or damp environments.) The major difference with MC wire is that there is no need for conduit as the outer sheathing of the MC cable is a flexible metal jacket. Unlike NM-B, 6 gauge MC wire is suitable for use with 60 amp circuits for EV charging (continuous 48 amp load.)

The electrician said he can do 60 amp, but sounded like he wanted to use 6 gauge wire. Not sure what kind, but he did say he couldn't use MC. I didn't mention before the wire has to be run outside in conduit and then through the brick exterior of the garage. He's stopping by this afternoon to see about installing on the post in between the two spots on the left (instead of on the right wall). This would put it in between two EVs for easier use. Though I could also keep it on the fight wall and extend it in the future. Though that would be more expensive.

Thanks for the extra info.

 

[kpanda17]

Hello,

Just got enough referral points to get the wall connector charger. I don't think I would have ordered it otherwise, but didn't see anything else to order as enticing. I've been using just the mobile connector on a 110-outlet for the past two years and it will be nice to have the flexibility of the quick charge.

I have a few questions:

1. I assume since I didn't spend any money on this charger I cannot claim any CO-State/Federal tax credits on the item, but can claim on the install?
2. The install quote is $1600-1800 which seems high, but my panel box is on the opposite side of the house and the electrician will need to use a lot of copper to get to the garage. Is this reasonable?
3. I back in to the right side of my 3-car garage, so the ideal location for my car is on the right wall closest to the charge port. This is ideal for our 1-Tesla family, but if we were to ever get a second Tesla would the wall connector charger be easy to move or should I rearrange the cars in the garage to find a spot that would be better to reach two cars? (this is a good question for the electrician, but I'd like to hear from your experiences)
4. The electrician was planing on running a 50 amp wire to a 15-40 connector, but the next day a referral went through and I asked if he could connect the wall charger. He said no problem. Does he need to wire for 60 amp output now?
5. Do I also need to order the Wall Connector Wirebox Kit & Wall Connector Fastener Kit or does the Wall Connector come with everything I need by default?
6. I couldn't order the Universal Wall Connector with the credits, is there an adapter that goes from the Tesla Wall Connector to a non-Tesla EV?

Thanks in advance, nf

1. Correct, just the install $, need doc for records showing out of pocket cost, WC will have no $ cost
2. Yes, I ran 65 feet 1 gauge SER to a subpanel, 125amp box feeder breaker and then 2x 60 amp breakers to 2x WCs, the subpanel gives me options on the far end for the future
3. As I answered, we did two WCs, we have two Teslas, I also did indoor WC installs and thru wall cable runs with outside mounts this is my right side one
   
4. Yes
5. The WC comes with everything except of you mount the cable handle away, btw look for a new gen alum cable handle mount, rhe plastic one in the picture is wearing where the handle is held in place
6. yes, Tesla charging handle to non Tesla EV via J1772 EVDANCE Tesla to J1772 Charging Adapter - Max 80 Amp & 250V J1772 EV Adapter Tesla Charger Adapter Compatible with Tesla High Powered Connectors Destination Chargers and Mobile Connectors https://a.co/d/fjh6U4e
   

Most important for you, read in detail the WC manual, understand everything the Electrican has to complete, make sure WiFi reaches each WC spot
Most important for the Electrican, be sure to torque down all copper to breakers and WC connections

 

[jcanoe]

The electrician said he can do 60 amp, but sounded like he wanted to use 6 gauge wire. Not sure what kind, but he did say he couldn't use MC. I didn't mention before the wire has to be run outside in conduit and then through the brick exterior of the garage. He's stopping by this afternoon to see about installing on the post in between the two spots on the left (instead of on the right wall). This would put it in between two EVs for easier use. Though I could also keep it on the fight wall and extend it in the future. Though that would be more expensive.

Thanks for the extra info.

I would choose the most flexible location (better to get it done right the first time.) If conduit is to be used then individual 6 gauge wires (2 hot wires and a ground wire) would be pulled. For a sub-panel there would be a 3rd wire (neutral connection) in case you wanted to add a 120V circuit to the sub panel in the future. For this installation it does not appear that NM-B or MC wire would be suitable.

 

[Noflash]

1. Correct, just the install $, need doc for records showing out of pocket cost, WC will have no $ cost
2. Yes, I ran 65 feet 1 gauge SER to a subpanel, 125amp box feeder breaker and then 2x 60 amp breakers to 2x WCs, the subpanel gives me options on the far end for the future
3. As I answered, we did two WCs, we have two Teslas, I also did indoor WC installs and thru wall cable runs with outside mounts this is my right side one View attachment 970522
4. Yes
5. The WC comes with everything except of you mount the cable handle away, btw look for a new gen alum cable handle mount, rhe plastic one in the picture is wearing where the handle is held in place
6. yes, Tesla charging handle to non Tesla EV via J1772 EVDANCE Tesla to J1772 Charging Adapter - Max 80 Amp & 250V J1772 EV Adapter Tesla Charger Adapter Compatible with Tesla High Powered Connectors Destination Chargers and Mobile Connectors Amazon.com View attachment 970524

View attachment 970525

Most important for you, read in detail the WC manual, understand everything the Electrican has to complete, make sure WiFi reaches each WC spot
Most important for the Electrican, be sure to torque down all copper to breakers and WC connections

Thanks - very helpful!

I would choose the most flexible location (better to get it done right the first time.) If conduit is to be used then individual 6 gauge wires (2 hot wires and a ground wire) would be pulled. For a sub-panel there would be a 3rd wire (neutral connection) in case you wanted to add a 120V circuit to the sub panel in the future. For this installation it does not appear that NM-B or MC wire would be suitable.

He is using conduit. So if that requires 6 gauge, then does that mean I won't get the full 48A to get the full 44mph?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Thanks - very helpful!

He is using conduit. So if that requires 6 gauge, then does that mean I won't get the full 48A to get the full 44mph?

6 gauge THHN individual wires in a conduit works find for a 60A breaker, 48A charge rate. It’s only NM-B that’s funky at that amperage.

But do ask if he’s going to run conduit all the way. If I had to guess what his original plan was, it would be to use NM-B all the way, and enclose it in conduit for the outdoor part since that would work for a 50A install, but not a 60A.

 

[jcanoe]

Thanks - very helpful!

He is using conduit. So if that requires 6 gauge, then does that mean I won't get the full 48A to get the full 44mph?

If the electrician is installing a 60 amp circuit they would use the correct gauge wire. I.e. 6 gauge THHN wire meets code for a 60 amp circuit. The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector enables charging at 48 amps when installed on a 60 amp circuit. (This does not imply that 6 gauge NM-B (Romex) is adequate for use with a 60 amp circuit. 6 gauge NM-B is only rated for 55 amps, would support charging at 44 amps.) Tesla does not enable setting the Wall Connector for a 55 amp circuit, charging at 44 amps (the next lower setting below the 60 amp maximum setting is 50 amps.) When configuring the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector you set the Wall Connector for the circuit rating, i.e. 60 amps or 50 amps, etc. The Wall Connector will always follow the 80% rule for continuous use loads (as when charging an EV) so the maximum amperage when charging would automatically be limited to 48 amps on a 60 amp circuit and 40 amps on a 50 amp circuit.

If you want to you can lower (but not raise) the default charging amperage from the maximum charging amperage for the circuit for a given location, i.e. the Home or Work location from the Tesla Charging screen or the Tesla phone app. When charging at a lower amperage the Wall Connector, charging cord and wiring operate at a lower temperature and this may help maximize the life of the Wall Connector. In most cases you would not be likely to be inconvenienced by the slightly longer charging time when charging at 40 amps instead of 48 amps.

 

[Eric33432]

All excellent advice above. Might I add to the conversation the following?

The cost you quoted seems to be on the high side of what it should cost to install a Tesla Wall Connector, but it all depends on the complexity of running the cable. 100' of 6/2 w/ground MC cable would cost about $350, NM (Romex) would probably be a little less. Most of the cost of installing such a circuit is for the electrician's labor. Wire and conduit would not be drastically more for materials, but the labor is more intense with conduit. Conduit can be plastic (PVC) or metal.

If your electrician installs conduit all the way from your electrical panel to the TWC, #6 THHN/THWN 2 wire should be used on a 60 amp circuit (48 amp charging), but the ground can be #10 wire. If the run exceeds about 170 feet, you should use #4 wire for the conductors to keep the voltage loss below 3%

If you wish to install a 50 amp circuit, for 40 amp charging, you could use #8 (#10 for the ground) wire if the entire run is in conduit. If your run is more than 130 feet, however, you should stay with #6 wire to keep the voltage drop from exceeding 3%.

(Note the voltage drop for 40 amps on #8 wire is 3% at ~130 feet, and the voltage drop for 48 amps on #6 wire is 3% at ~170 feet.)

But if your electrician installs 6/2 NM (Romex) cable part of the way (i.e. for the indoor part of the wire run), then conduit with #6 THHN/THWN-2 wire (#10 for the ground) for the outdoor part of the circuit, then the breaker should be 50 amps, and the TWC configured for a 50 amp breaker which will give you 40 amp charging. But in this situation, #8 THHN/THWN-2 could also be used for the wire contained in the conduit although the cost difference will not be very much.

If instead he or she installed 6/2 MC cable instead of NM cable for the indoor part of the wire run, (with #6 (#10 for grounds) in the conduit) then the circuit could be on a 60 amp breaker with 48 amp charging.

Note that the ground wire in most NM cable is #10 bare copper and MC cable is #8 THHN insulated (green) copper wire.

In almost all cases, 40 amp charging is fine, if you charge overnight your car will be fully charged in the morning.

There are a few cases where you would want to consider maximum 48 amp charging, such as if you have limited time to charge at a low time of day rate, are an Uber driver who needs to charge as quick as possible, or you have two Teslae and drive them each 200+ miles a day, and so on.

My son and his GF have no problem sharing a single TWC set up on a 50 amp breaker for 40 amp charging between their two Teslae. They installed #6 wire in conduit from their meter main panel, but happened to have a spare 50 amp breaker and planned on replacing it with a 60 amp breaker, but it works fine and they never bothered to change it out.

But if you are both running the battery down to sub 50% levels on a daily basis it might be better to have the capacity to charge two cars at the same time. You should determine if that might overload your electrical service's capabilities. Only a load calculation can determine if you have the capacity for that. In fact, a load calculation should be done for just a single TWC.

 

[kpanda17]

Guys, I am trained and have a lot of electrical experience
as I was reading all of the tips I remembered, do not use aluminum as temping as it maybe to save money

 

[Macgruber]

I just installed my WC connector last week. I used 50ft of 6/2 MC wire. My electrical panel is in my laundry room and had to go up through attic space and down into my garage. The wire cost me $200 and I did it myself. I used a 2 pole 60 amp breaker and I can charge at the max of 48amps. No additional conduit needed and can charge at the max rate. I highly recommend this setup.

 

[terminally_chi]

1. Correct, just the install $, need doc for records showing out of pocket cost, WC will have no $ cost
2. Yes, I ran 65 feet 1 gauge SER to a subpanel, 125amp box feeder breaker and then 2x 60 amp breakers to 2x WCs, the subpanel gives me options on the far end for the future
3. As I answered, we did two WCs, we have two Teslas, I also did indoor WC installs and thru wall cable runs with outside mounts this is my right side one View attachment 970522
4. Yes
5. The WC comes with everything except of you mount the cable handle away, btw look for a new gen alum cable handle mount, rhe plastic one in the picture is wearing where the handle is held in place
6. yes, Tesla charging handle to non Tesla EV via J1772 EVDANCE Tesla to J1772 Charging Adapter - Max 80 Amp & 250V J1772 EV Adapter Tesla Charger Adapter Compatible with Tesla High Powered Connectors Destination Chargers and Mobile Connectors Amazon.com View attachment 970524

View attachment 970525

Most important for you, read in detail the WC manual, understand everything the Electrican has to complete, make sure WiFi reaches each WC spot
Most important for the Electrican, be sure to torque down all copper to breakers and WC connections

Did you have any moisture, critter issues in the hole with that kind of setup? I'd imagine the hole for the cable to go through is not sealed?

 

[davewill]

You could always buy another Wall Connector and sell the "free" one on eBay if you want to take the tax credit for it.

 

[Midpack]

I know I am eligible for an IRS tax credit for 30% of the cost of the 240V receptacle/circuit ($485) I had installed at our primary residence in Feb, but can I also include the Mobile Connector ($230) in the basis for the tax credit in form 8911? I read the IRS instructions, and several threads here and did not see the mobile connector mentioned. Both are solely for EV charging. Just asking...

 

[Cosmacelf]

I know I am eligible for an IRS tax credit for 30% of the cost of the 240V receptacle/circuit ($485) I had installed at our primary residence in Feb, but can I also include the Mobile Connector ($230) in the basis for the tax credit in form 8911? I read the IRS instructions, and several threads here and did not see the mobile connector mentioned. Both are solely for EV charging. Just asking...

I don't see why not. I mean, even if you got audited, no IRS inspector would know enough to question it. And, IMHO, it is within the spirit of the law.

 

[davewill]

I know I am eligible for an IRS tax credit for 30% of the cost of the 240V receptacle/circuit ($485) I had installed at our primary residence in Feb, but can I also include the Mobile Connector ($230) in the basis for the tax credit in form 8911? I read the IRS instructions, and several threads here and did not see the mobile connector mentioned. Both are solely for EV charging. Just asking...

I'd go for it. If you go ahead and mount it to the wall you'd have an even stronger case that it was intended as a permanent installation. A lot of third party EVSEs use outlets even though they are not portable.

 

[Noflash]

I received two free wall chargers through referral points. Assuming there's no way I can claim those.

 

[davewill]

I received two free wall chargers through referral points. Assuming there's no way I can claim those.

You could buy a new one and sell one of the freebies.