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Waymo

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1000+ public riders now have full driverless, 24/7, in all of SF! Waymo continues to march ahead! And according to Waymo CEO Mawakana on the Kara Swisher podcast, there are 80k riders on the waitlist. So Waymo has lots of room to grow. 1000+ riders with 24/7 drivers in all of SF is a great milestone and it is the only the beginning!

 
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Then we should ban Tesla FSD beta. FSD beta can't do any MRC at all. And I used FSD beta today on a 340 mile trip. It definitely would have failed a driver's license test.
Tesla does not claim to be driverless or L3 or anything like that. It needs an attentive driver all the time.

Waymo needs a safety driver until they can demonstrate safe MRC. Currently they are simply not ready for driverless.
 
Waymo needs a safety driver until they can demonstrate safe MRC. Currently they are simply not ready for driverless.

No, they do not need a safety driver. Their safety data backs that up. You are just picking a few rare "stalls" to try to claim that they are not ready. But Waymo has done lots of good MRCs too. I believe if you look at Waymo's safety cases, Waymo has demonstrated safe MRC overall. They are ready for driverless. Their safety data proves it and the CPUC agrees that they are ready. You just want to ban Waymo because they are a competitor to Tesla's FSD and you are a Tesla investor. Your agenda is clear.
 
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4 weeks ago
I don’t know about you but when I am using FSD it is pretty clear automation is driving ;)
Today
Tesla does not claim to be driverless or L3 or anything like that. It needs an attentive driver all the time.

4 weeks ago
Oh - finally all but the most important commercial areas of SF ;)

With an emphasis on gradual ;)

Critics might say, painfully slow instead of gradual.

Today

1000+ public riders now have full driverless, 24/7, in all of SF! Waymo continues to march ahead! And according to Waymo CEO Mawakana on the Kara Swisher podcast, there are 80k riders on the waitlist. So Waymo has lots of room to grow. 1000+ riders with 24/7 drivers in all of SF is a great milestone and it is the only the beginning!


Looks like some progress is being made albeit in ~4 weeks.
 
what is MRC?
Minimal risk condition

Minimal risk condition” means a condition in which an autonomous vehicle operating without a human driver, upon experiencing a failure of its automated driving system that renders the autonomous vehicle unable to perform the dynamic driving task, achieves a reasonably safe state which may include, without limitation, bringing the autonomous vehicle to a complete stop.

Cruise staying put in the middle of the road is a minimal risk condition contrary to what some would like to believe. Even better would be if they pull to the side of the road which they also do. Cruise is just more prone to stalls than Waymo according to actual data.

Blue dot is waymo, orange is cruise.
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How many stalls are ok - compared to humans?

Driverless cars will have some "stalls" due to the planning software not knowing how to handle a case. This is because a driverless vehicle, like a robotaxi, are programmed to stop and wait when they don't know what to do, since there is no human in the car to help. Stopping is often the safest option in that situation. So to answer you question, it depends on the cause of the stall and how often it happens. If the stalls are happening a lot due to obvious situations that it should be able to handle, that would not be ok. But if the stalls are happening due tol edge cases and they happen say only 1% of the time, that might be temporarily "ok" while the engineers work to improve the system.

Cruise has more stalls than Waymo. But both Waymo and Cruise are working to solve those cases to make "stalls" more infrequent over time. Waymo and Cruise are constantly getting better over time with software updates as the engineers add more data and train their neural nets. Driverless cars will likely always have some "stalls" because you will never solve every single edge case. It is impossible to eliminate all "stalls". But the "stalls" should eventually become extremely rare.

How many human drivers will sit on the road blocking the road because a passenger didn't close the door when exiting?

Those stalls have been solved now. Cruise has automatic door closing to address this very issue of passengers not closing the door when exiting:

 
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Waymo and Cruise should be banned until they can demonstrate good MRC behavior. Can't get a license, can't drive.

By the way, don't lump Cruise and Waymo together. They might both be doing robotaxis in SF but their reliability in autonomous driving is very different. You can see from the map that Cruise had far more "stalls" than Waymo. Cruise is much less reliable than Waymo.

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Could easily have been Waymo.

But it was not a Waymo. And you cannot just assume that it could have been. You have no proof that it could have been a Waymo. This is your ugly Waymo bias. You just assume that if one AV struggles with stalls then Waymo must struggle with it too because in your mind, all autonomous driving that is not from Tesla must automatically be the same and unsafe and unreliable.

What are Waymo's stated and demonstrated MRC capabilities and how have they been tested in realworld ?

Waymo Driver is designed will full MRC capabilities. And Waymo has a rigorous safety framework for testing. Now, this does not mean that Waymo's MRC is perfect. Nothing is perfect. Capability is different from reliability. Waymo has the capability of MRC and is very good at MRC is most cases. But there are always edge cases that still need to be solved. No AV is perfect in every case.
 
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How do you know ? Show us.

From the Waymo Safety Report, page 17:

"If our autonomously driven vehicle can no longer proceed on a planned trip, it must be capable of performing a safe stop, known as a “minimal risk condition” or fallback. This might include situations when the autonomous system experiences a problem, when the vehicle is involved in a collision, or when environmental conditions change in a way that would affect safe driving within our operational design domain.

Waymo’s system is designed to detect each one of these scenarios automatically. In addition, our system runs thousands of checks every second, looking for faults. Our system is equipped with a series of redundancies for critical systems, such as sensors, computing, and braking. How our Waymo Driver responds varies with the type of roadway on which a situation occurs, the current traffic conditions, and the extent of the technology failure. Depending on these factors, the system will determine an appropriate response to keep our riders, our vehicle, and other road users safe, including pulling over or coming to a safe stop."

So I say it has full MRC capabilities because it can do all the steps of MRC: it can detect problems that might require a MRC, has full hardware redundancy, can determine appropriate MRC and then perform appropriate MRC, including pulling over or coming to a safe stop, based on environmental conditions.

ps : If ever there was a Waymo PR type statement here, that was it. Are you sure you don't work for Waymo PR ?

No, I do not. I am just an informed fan of autonomous driving. I read their safety reports, law enforcement guide, research papers etc to be informed on how their tech works.