What’s the build quality on pre Shanghai model 3

[Steffy]

I’ve been looking at some second hand model 3’s and there are a couple for under €25k and even one for like just under €20k, but most of them are 2019-2020, what is the build quality like on pre Shanghai built model 3’s ?

Ignoring the new features, efficiency and range improvements they have made over the years, would it she worth buying a cheap secondhand one from that period if 2019/2020 ?

 

[Jangy]

You're concerned about the relative build quality of the same product from 2 different factories? That is your deciding factor when comparing OLD tech vs NEW tech? It's really sad how much BS has been fed into the Tesla community. Keep in mind that ALL Model 3s got a quality refresh in '21. ALL pre'21 are very different. Just like how '24 is very different. The rest is NOISE. You should also reconsider loving the Chinese made ones because batteries from there are significantly inferior. There's so many things to consider when determining the best used Tesla, the least of which is factory.

 

[Dilly]

Mine’s a March 2020 Fremont car. I have no issues at all. Many did have all sorts!
Mostly panel gaps and paint.

 

[Whyone]

You're concerned about the relative build quality of the same product from 2 different factories? ......There's so many things to consider when determining the best used Tesla, the least of which is factory.

Well I certainly would be!

I have owned a 2020 M3 LR (so Freemont built) and a 2022 M3 LR (so Shanghai built), both from new.

For two examples of basically the same car, the differences were startling.

On the older car panel gaps were all over the place (and the boot lid needed frequent attention and adjustment and never really closed properly). The car had numerous rattles and wind noise, at even moderate speeds, was pronounced....and just for a party trick, the paint started falling off in large flakes! The car arrived with several scratched interior panels, and an adhesive film over the door cars which was never completely removed.

By contrast, the more recent car is noticeably quieter, rattle free, has pretty even panel gaps and, the last time I checked, the paint was still attached.

 

[Jangy]

Well I certainly would be!

I have owned a 2020 M3 LR (so Freemont built) and a 2022 M3 LR (so Shanghai built), both from new.

For two examples of basically the same car, the differences were startling.

On the older car panel gaps were all over the place (and the boot lid needed frequent attention and adjustment and never really closed properly). The car had numerous rattles and wind noise, at even moderate speeds, was pronounced....and just for a party trick, the paint started falling off in large flakes! The car arrived with several scratched interior panels, and an adhesive film over the door cars which was never completely removed.

By contrast, the more recent car is noticeably quieter, rattle free, has pretty even panel gaps and, the last time I checked, the paint was still attached.

Again not the same cars. You are trying to compare a pre-refresh design to a post refresh design and call them the same. It's a fallacy. Go buy a new Fremont car then give this expert observation.

 

[Whyone]

Again not the same cars. You are trying to compare a pre-refresh design to a post refresh design and call them the same.....

OP is asking for insights on the build quality of 2019-20 (so Freemont built) M3's.

I'd have thought that offering my objective experience, based on owning 2020 and 2022 cars might conceivably be helpful. Oh....and my 2020 car was as a late 2020 car (so black trim, heat pump, power boot lid etc....) presumably this is the 'refreshed' design you appear to hold in such high regard?!

In a nutshell, the build quality of those earlier Freemont cars is patchy - some seem OK, for many it's really quite poor - and that is just the stuff you can see, who knows what lies beneath?!

 

[MrBadger]

Older Fremont cars were a bit of a mixed bunch - there were two quite different production lines which seemed to produce cars of different build quality.

However these differing build quality issues were addressed by Tesla when asked which typically resulted in better than both production line finishes.

But it was obviously up to the ‘owner’ to get these addressed to their satisfaction. We certainly did. Those cars are probably pretty well cared for too.

Not withstanding spec improvements, early cars certainly were part of the early Tesla learning to mass produce cars process which affected both design and build decisions, component choice and cost cutting measures - both positives and negatives.

 

[Jangy]

So much conjecture in here. Like always, I love how the Euro folks are the experts at Fremont builds. Like I said before, informed people would look into design and tech, instead of trying to rationalize their particular situation. Most importantly, even with those OLD cars is that they have better quality batteries than any car out of Shanghai ever has. It would be one thing if we were trying to say that a well-established auto maker added value. Shanghai had NEVER built a car before Tesla started there. Like it or not, it's the Tesla design and process. Nothing changes, except rhetoric by people trying to feel better about having less than PRIME.

 

[Whyone]

So much conjecture in here. Like always, I love how the Euro folks are the experts at Fremont builds. Like I said before, informed people would look into design and tech, instead of trying to rationalize their particular situation. Most importantly, even with those OLD cars is that they have better quality batteries than any car out of Shanghai ever has. It would be one thing if we were trying to say that a well-established auto maker added value. Shanghai had NEVER built a car before Tesla started there. Like it or not, it's the Tesla design and process. Nothing changes, except rhetoric by people trying to feel better about having less than PRIME.

So you are essentially saying, having owned a late 2020 M3LR from Freemont and a 2022 M3LR from Shanghai, I have no place offering my opinion, in response to someone asking about pre-2020 build quality of Freemont cars, on the stark build quality issues I observed because I am from Europe?

The patchy/shonky quality of some of these cars has been well documented here, but I guess all these folks must be wrong.

And whilst we are at it, WTF does "Nothing changes, except rhetoric by people trying to feel better about having less than PRIME" mean?!?

 

[Jangy]

So you are essentially saying, having owned a late 2020 M3LR from Freemont and a 2022 M3LR from Shanghai, I have no place offering my opinion, in response to someone asking about pre-2020 build quality of Freemont cars, on the stark build quality issues I observed?

And whilst we are at it, WTF does "Nothing changes, except rhetoric by people trying to feel better about having less than PRIME" mean?!?

Your 2022 SHANGHAI build quality is better than a 2020 FREMONT one because it is simply newer. So, to play the game of where it was built has done nothing but confuse people like OP. You keep feeling that your "experience" is so valuable. EV's aren't new. Getting OP the proper info is what matters. OP literally thinks the build quality is dependent on location of build, which is STUPID (although a rumor that has been PRESSED by the Euro folks). Instead, OP should be considering the NUMEROUS upgrades done in 2021. I'm definitely not saying that a 2020 has good quality. We sort of agree, but I 100% disagree with your continued attempt to hide it.

The last part matters because a 2022 Fremont Car is WAY superior to a 2022 China car. That's FACTS. Just like how the 2024 MP3 DOMINATES over the Chinese variant. These FACTS will definitely last and show themselves as the NOISE fades out.

 

[Whyone]

...... I'm definitely not saying that a 2020 has good quality. We sort of agree, but I 100% disagree with your continued attempt to hide it.
....,.

What the heck am I trying to hide here?!?! You do make some nonesensical assertions!

Whether or not it is coincidental or not, the fact remains that, for the UK market at least, there was a marked uptick in quality when we started recieving cars from Shanghai.

Maybe the Freemont cars of 2023/2024 are better than their Chinese equivalents...but that simply isn't relevant to someone considering buying a car in UK.

As per my previous post, could you please translate "Nothing changes, except rhetoric by people trying to feel better about having less than PRIME" into something approaching coherent English?

 

[Jangy]

What the heck am I trying to hide here?!?! You do make some nonesensical assertions!

Whether or not it is incidental or not, the fact remains that, for the UK market at least, there was a marked uptick in quality when we started recieving cars from Shanghai.

Maybe the Freemont cars of 2023/2024 are better than their Chinese equivalents...but that simply isn't relevant to someone considering buying a car in UK.

As per my previous post, could you please translate "Nothing changes, except rhetoric by people trying to feel better about having less than PRIME" into something approaching coherent English?

Look, we just disagree. You are obviously a faith-based person, and I am science based. Be you. You can believe that the UPTICK in Quality is due to China build. That is like saying that the sun rises in the morning, and I wake up in the morning; so, I must be rising the sun. Am I? Or is the sun going to rise whether I get up or not? Please answer the question, because it relates to your rationale from before. Be consistent, please. Why argue? And why pretend like you don't "get it"?

 

[Whyone]

..... You can believe that the UPTICK in Quality is due to China build...

Did you even bother to read my previous post?

I clearly stated that, for the UK market, the uptick in quality coincided with our cars coming from Shanghai rather than Freemont.....but acknowledged that it may well be that Freemont cars from 2022 onwards are as good as / better than the Chinese equivalents, but as we don't see these cars, there is no way of us telling.

So for someone buying a car in the UK, they can reasonably expect a Chinese car to be better built than an (older) US built equivalent.

(Oh, and having spent 40 years interpreting and integrating geophysical, geological, petrophysical and production data into dynamic hydrocarbon reservoir computer models, I consider myself to be a scientist).

 

[Jangy]

Did you even bother to read my previous post?

I clearly stated that, for the UK market, the uptick in quality coincided with our cars coming from Shanghai rather than Freemont.....but acknowledged that it may well be that Freemont cars from 2022 onwards are as good as / better than the Chinese equivalents, but as we don't see these cars, there is no way of us telling.

So for someone buying a car in the UK, they can reasonably expect a Chinese car to be better built than an (older) US built equivalent.

(Oh, and having spent 40 years interpreting and integrating geophysical, geological, petrophysical and production data into dynamic hydrocarbon reservoir computer models, I consider myself to be a scientist).

Whatever helps you feel better. In your world, I MAY be helping the sun rise. Right?

 

[Masklin]

What DOES writing random WORDS in capitals MEAN?

 

[G4WFT]

What DOES writing random WORDS in capitals MEAN?

It means the writer's IQ is suspect.

 

[MrT3]

The last part matters because a 2022 Fremont Car is WAY superior to a 2022 China car.

Based on what facts?

 

[Avendit]

Just did 400 miles in my p- 2019 car, so possibly slightly more qualified to comment here.

Early Fremont cars there definitely good ones and bad ones. Mine's great (hence still have it) and also reasonably rare combo of no pup but +tow, but I know friends that only got 'ok' cars. Not disasters, but alignment of panels or roof not quite as good as mine, and paint coverage was down a bit.

Then onto people on here and there were some pretty poor fitments around, between wind noise, sealant missing from the windscreen and so on. Most of these should have been addressed by now, or after market tweaks made to address I would have thought.

Then there is the design differences that not much can really be done about (in no particular order);

• No auto boot
• No heat pump (real killer for range in winter)
• No heated steering
• Suspension was crap crap crap to the point of danger and travel sickness (I'm after market now)
• No matrix headlights
• Definitely noisier than newer gens as a base, but again there is better and worse examples
• But bigger frunk
• Probably other things I can't remember right now.

OTOH, I still have the latest firmware that gives me average speed camera info and although most don't remember it, for all the FSD moaning many many genuine improvements have been made.

Real key is to carefully inspect and test drive at speed the actual car you are considering. I'd never buy remote because the variance was just so huge. Also your tolerance for issues, especially weird noises, won't be someone else's.

Sorry for trying to be a reasonable voice in another wise exciting argument.

 

[Whyone]

....
Sorry for trying to be a reasonable voice in another wise exciting argument.

Well you can stop that immediately!!!

(Good post though!)

 

[Big_D]

Before I test drove a (Chinese built) M3 in 2021, the Tesla sales assistant mentioned (unprovoked) that "we had some build quality issue with the cars, but the quality is better now that the cars are built in China".

So even Tesla acknowledged that the quality had improved since the cars started coming from Chine.

Of course we don't know the quality of Fremont cars since, because us "Euro folk" never had those here.