What’s up Elon’s sleeve for AWD and PAWD buyers

[mike123abc]

Only way I see Tesla improving AWD/PAWD is if BMW improves. Tesla seems to like outperforming the BMW...

Tesla PAWD 3.5 (3.3 with rollout) BMW M3 Performance 4.0 (2019 TBA)
Tesla AWD 4.5 BMW 340i xdrive 4.9 (2019 TBA)
Tesla 100D 4.1 BMW 540i xdrive 4.3
Tesla P100D 2.5 BMW M5 2.9

Maybe there will be some discovered "efficiencies" and improvements if the 2019 BMWs manage to close in on Tesla's lead...

Even then it could only be for new ones, existing units could be stuck...

 

[Knightshade]

If they uncork one they better uncork all. I didnt pay 11k extra just to have a P that is exactly the same as an AWD with the only difference being an acceleration and top speed number in the software.

If you bought a P3D- then that's exactly what you did pay 11k extra for.

Interestingly the removal of P3D- as a config makes a "paid" upgrade for AWD cars more likely, since that would no longer cannibalize sales of the P3D- since it's not for sale anymore.

People who actually want (or think they want) the bigger wheels and brakes and track mode will still pay ~11k more for the P, and AWD owners could have an option for a 5k unlock for just the 3.5 0-60.

Not sure Tesla intends to actually DO that- but it's really the only benefit I can see to them removing the P3D- offering.

I agree it's more likely you'd see a smaller, but free, unlock on all 3 models to keep ahead of BMW.

Speaking of-

Only way I see Tesla improving AWD/PAWD is if BMW improves. Tesla seems to like outperforming the BMW...

Tesla PAWD 3.5 (3.3 with rollout) BMW M3 Performance 4.0 (2019 TBA)
Tesla AWD 4.5 BMW 340i xdrive 4.9 (2019 TBA)

I think you mean the 2020? The 2020s are out this coming summer and specs have been known for months.

The 340ix is 4.2 0-60... so Tesla will need to uncork the AWD Model 3 a little bit to keep up with that (the 4.2 is with rollout, so the "real" number is probably pretty close to the current AWD model 3)

The next-gen BMW M3 numbers aren't known yet- but supposedly it'll be lighter, and more powerful, than the current CS version of the M3 (which does 0-60 in 3.8).

 

[Msjulie]

The 340ix is 4.2 0-60... so Tesla will need to uncork the AWD Model 3 a little bit to keep up with that (the 4.2 is with rollout, so the "real" number is probably pretty close to the current AWD model 3)

Why assume that Tesla cares to keep all 3's faster than any BMW 3; wouldn't it make more sense with their nuking of Stealth 3 that only the 'big dog' Performance 3 need be fastest? Also, tweaking a MR 3 or the unicorn SR 3 seems opposite of the goal of having a hot variant with affordable (sic) base models

Not arguing per-see, just curious

 

[Knightshade]

Why assume that Tesla cares to keep all 3's faster than any BMW 3; wouldn't it make more sense with their nuking of Stealth 3 that only the 'big dog' Performance 3 need be fastest?

...no?

Because the + and - versions of the P were equally quick already. So removing one doesn't really change that.

What it changes is it removes the version that would actually lose sales if they uncork the AWD some.

Also, tweaking a MR 3 or the unicorn SR 3 seems opposite of the goal of having a hot variant with affordable (sic) base models

Not arguing per-see, just curious

I don't think anybody expects a significant uncork on the MR or SR models- given they use a different motor than all the other cars (and only one of them to boot)

 

[Msjulie]

@Knightshade I still don't see the need to make the AWD into the old Performance car... but I guess that's me

 

[Drizzle]

If you bought a P3D- then that's exactly what you did pay 11k extra for.

Interestingly the removal of P3D- as a config makes a "paid" upgrade for AWD cars more likely, since that would no longer cannibalize sales of the P3D- since it's not for sale anymore.

People who actually want (or think they want) the bigger wheels and brakes and track mode will still pay ~11k more for the P, and AWD owners could have an option for a 5k unlock for just the 3.5 0-60.

Not sure Tesla intends to actually DO that- but it's really the only benefit I can see to them removing the P3D- offering.

I agree it's more likely you'd see a smaller, but free, unlock on all 3 models to keep ahead of BMW.

Speaking of-




I think you mean the 2020? The 2020s are out this coming summer and specs have been known for months.

The 340ix is 4.2 0-60... so Tesla will need to uncork the AWD Model 3 a little bit to keep up with that (the 4.2 is with rollout, so the "real" number is probably pretty close to the current AWD model 3)

The next-gen BMW M3 numbers aren't known yet- but supposedly it'll be lighter, and more powerful, than the current CS version of the M3 (which does 0-60 in 3.8).

I worded that incorrectly. I did spend 11k on an unlocked version. I do not want people to get that same performance for say, $5k unless I get something that I feel makes up for it. Auto pilot or free charging is not it.

I would gladly accept more torque off the line with a 2.8 0-60 though. I bought performance for a reason.

 

[Glamisduner]

AWD to current performance specs for free, but only for new buyers.
Performance models get EAP for free, but only for new buyers.

Both cost tesla nothing

 

[Knightshade]

I worded that incorrectly. I did spend 11k on an unlocked version. I do not want people to get that same performance for say, $5k unless I get something that I feel makes up for it. Auto pilot or free charging is not it.

I would gladly accept more torque off the line with a 2.8 0-60 though. I bought performance for a reason.

Well, if the P- buyers get 5k back as some think they will, then a paid unlock of the AWD at 6k would just give them the same car, for less time, than someone who bought it that way in the first place.

But keep in mind S75 buyers who got uncorked ended up with quicker cars than S85 buyers... (and S75D buyers ended up just as quick as P85+ buyers)- so giving still-in-production models comparable 0-60 times for less $ than a discontinued one wouldn't be a first for Tesla.

@Knightshade I still don't see the need to make the AWD into the old Performance car... but I guess that's me

No, I generally agree, and even said I think this is less likely than a smaller, free, uncork to keep up with BMWs 3 series cars.

Was just pointing out the killing of the P3D- would make it a lot easier on Tesla if they decided to do a paid, more full, unlock for AWD owners since there's no - model to be hurting the sales of anymore.

And while there's not a "need" it would be an almost pure profit cash infusion for Tesla since it's just a software update (and possibly marginally higher warranty costs- which is why I expect it'll be at least 1-2 years before they have enough reliability data on the P to judge if they can/want to offer a "full" unlock to AWD owners)

 

[Knightshade]

AWD to current performance specs for free, but only for new buyers.
Performance models get EAP for free, but only for new buyers.

Both cost tesla nothing

On the contrary both cost Tesla quite a bit of almost pure profit by offering those as paid options.

Until they've exhausted demand worldwide for the higher spec models there's little economic reason to consider pulling those sort of levers.

 

[brianman]

Just wondering, what happens if you drive like a grandpa?

The nav is disabled because it's never used.

 

[clostridium]

We are all just participating in wild conjecture but I would think that the cost of the upgrade for AWD would be more than 5k. Practically speaking it should be at least 6k and probably more. The difference between awd and P is now 11k and they’ve already valued the brakes, wheels, etc. at 5k which is how I came up with 6k+.

They’ve got a captive audience in AWD owners who might want more performance so can charge a little premium. Plus (and this is way less of a factor but still likely matters a little to Tesla) they really don’t need to anger the P- owners yet again.

If you bought a P3D- then that's exactly what you did pay 11k extra for.

Interestingly the removal of P3D- as a config makes a "paid" upgrade for AWD cars more likely, since that would no longer cannibalize sales of the P3D- since it's not for sale anymore.

People who actually want (or think they want) the bigger wheels and brakes and track mode will still pay ~11k more for the P, and AWD owners could have an option for a 5k unlock for just the 3.5 0-60.

Not sure Tesla intends to actually DO that- but it's really the only benefit I can see to them removing the P3D- offering.

I agree it's more likely you'd see a smaller, but free, unlock on all 3 models to keep ahead of BMW.

Speaking of-




I think you mean the 2020? The 2020s are out this coming summer and specs have been known for months.

The 340ix is 4.2 0-60... so Tesla will need to uncork the AWD Model 3 a little bit to keep up with that (the 4.2 is with rollout, so the "real" number is probably pretty close to the current AWD model 3)

The next-gen BMW M3 numbers aren't known yet- but supposedly it'll be lighter, and more powerful, than the current CS version of the M3 (which does 0-60 in 3.8).

 

[Jedi2155]

I would be interested to see if they could in fact tweak the range on the RWD LR because in normal operation, it gets nothing close to the 310 range.

In normal operation and standard configuration, a LR RWD has the best range of any Model 3, while the P3D+ is the worse. Saying that
I can get 310 miles on my P3D+ if I want but I average about 280. I noticed you have non-stock wheels on your profile picture which gives me an idea of why you aren't getting 310 miles. If you stuck with the stock 18" Tires + Aero Cover you would at least be getting 310 miles. With my driving habits on a LR RWD, I'd probably get 350 miles on charge.

Refer to Troy chart for more detail.

From personal experience; My wife complains about Tesla not providing "holy sugar" handles over the passenger door. Also "*something* *something* your driving". :/

Wife complains about this on my 3 and S too. Many of my passengers bring up the lack of the of sheet handles.

AWD to current performance specs for free, but only for new buyers.
Performance models get EAP for free, but only for new buyers.

Both cost tesla nothing

Thinking about it more, this could make sense. Provide EAP for free for buyers of P3D's before 10/26. If you already bought EAP, then you get $5K refund back. If you didn't, then you get EAP for free saving Tesla the burden of refunding $5k. AND WE ALL KEEP FUSC FUUUUUUUU......xD. Sorry, I just really wish I would get to keep FUSC since they're building a 20 stall 72 kW Urban SC walking distance from my office....

 

[OverJohn]

Well I wouldn't because I still don't want 20" rims and brakes that (mostly) seem to require it... I just wanted AWD + ludicrous basically...

This is EXACTLY why I didn't go for the bigger rims and brakes. I wanted a "sleeper". Plus, the ride on the 20" rims must be pretty harsh. Not something I want to deal with for long-distance drives...

 

[Glamisduner]

This is EXACTLY why I didn't go for the bigger rims and brakes. I wanted a "sleeper". Plus, the ride on the 20" rims must be pretty harsh. Not something I want to deal with for long-distance drives...

When i went in a test drive the 20s felt better than the 18s. Could be some suspension differences too.

 

[Knightshade]

We are all just participating in wild conjecture but I would think that the cost of the upgrade for AWD would be more than 5k. Practically speaking it should be at least 6k and probably more. The difference between awd and P is now 11k and they’ve already valued the brakes, wheels, etc. at 5k which is how I came up with 6k+.

Clearly they do not really value the brake/wheels/etc at 5k- since they've ceased to charge an extra 5k for them

Further, depending on when you ordered an AWD to P3D- difference varied between 9 and 11k (when AWD was moving between 4, 5, and 6k itself)... so you could make reasonable arguments for the price for just the extra acceleration/speed (if you knocked off 5k for the + stuff) being 4k, 5k, OR 6k.

They’ve got a captive audience in AWD owners who might want more performance so can charge a little premium.

Well, those AWD owners clearly found 11k too much to pay just for the 1 second quicker 0-60 and free supercharging... and now 11k gets you that PLUS the + additions... so they'd have to offer a significant enough discount to that figure to get many takers.... and with the math in the first part of this reply that could be anything in the 4-6k range.

Plus (and this is way less of a factor but still likely matters a little to Tesla) they really don’t need to anger the P- owners yet again.

Are P85 owners annoyed uncorked non-P 75 owners have comparably quick cars to theirs? Didn't seem to stop Tesla from doing that- and for free no less.


Again though I think a small, free, uncork to stay ahead of BMWs 340xi is more likely than a paid full AWD->P3D- unlock is, unless/until P demand is filled worldwide and they start needing some pure-profit revenue to shore things up a bit on the books until the Y is ready or something.

 

[TEG]

Wife complains about this on my 3 and S too. Many of my passengers bring up the lack of the of sheet handles.

I think they are unable to put in those grab handles because there are airbags in all of the columns.

 

[robski]

When i went in a test drive the 20s felt better than the 18s. Could be some suspension differences too.

This was the biggest surprise to me. The 20's have a bit of a SAS feel and even feel softer than my previous RWD 19's. It's only worse on the bumpiest of roads but 90% of the time it's better. Plus it looks so much better with the lowered suspension. The non-PUP suspension makes a hideous 4x4 wheel gap.

 

[dhrivnak]

I would be interested to see if they could in fact tweak the range on the RWD LR because in normal operation, it gets nothing close to the 310 range.

I have frequently been able to best 310 miles on a charge. I do have the aero wheels.

 

[Drizzle]

The range data + wheel size is already out there: Tesla Model S/X/3 range at 55/60/65/70/75/80 mph

 

[ℬête Noire]

Wife complains about this on my 3 and S too. Many of my passengers bring up the lack of the of sheet handles.

On the other hand it never gets old watching people grasp into empty air trying to find them. Even when the wife does it as now as commentary on my driving in the moment.