Hi all, this will be our first electric car. We have solar on our California home's roof, already enough to energy for fully charge a lot of driving per month on Tesla, per our electric company. Our garage does not have any special outlet or charger yet, we just have the standard garage outlets that came with a 1998 built home. What should we ask to have an electrician installed in our garage to efficiently charge the car? And are there any special tax incentives/rebates that we need to keep in mind with one option over another? Thank you!
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What charging install should we have ready for the car's delivery?
- Thread starter CaliforniaTes1
- Start date
What part of CA? There may be local incentives available from your utility for installing an electric vehicle charging station.
Work with the electrician that installed your current system. You can also obtain a list of local electricians from Tesla.
The Tesla Model Y no longer comes with the plug-in Tesla Mobile Connector ($230 US) or the hard-wired Tesla Wall Connector ($400 US.) You can also use a non-Tesla charging station with the Tesla SAE J1772 charging adapter that comes with the Tesla Model Y. (Reasons you may want to install non-Tesla charging equipment include the possibility of an available rebate from your electric utility or if you wish to keep options open for charging a future non-Tesla electric vehicle.)
Figure out whether you will primarily be charging at home or work. If you have the ability to charge at your place of work and it is free for your use then you will definitely want to maximize charging at work Monday through Friday, reserve charging at home for the weekend.
Determine how many miles you typically drive per day, during the week and on the weekend. Most people drive less than 30 miles per day but your mileage may differ. Charging at home using a standard 120V outlet you can easily manage if you drive up to 30 miles per day. More than that and you will want to consider installing a 240V charging circuit. The 240V charging circuits can be rated 20/30/40/50/60 amps. The primary advantage of going with a 60 amp circuit versus a 40 or 50 amp circuit, assuming your home has the capacity for the larger circuit, is speed of charging.
In actual use any of the 240V charging circuits could meet your charging needs. (The 60 amp circuit must be hard wired (no plug.) The other 240V charging circuits can either be terminated with the proper receptacle (6-20R, 14-30R, 14-50R) or hard wired (when using the Wall Connector.) The Mobile Connector kit comes with the NEMA 5-15 power plug that fits a standard 120V receptacle and the NEMA 14-50 power plug. The Mobile Connector can also be fitted with other optional power plug adapters that are available from Tesla.
Since you have solar you may want to charge during the day when possible, else late at night if you sign up for one of the off-peak rate plans. (These may push you to needing to charge from midnight to 0600 to obtain the lowest rate charge per kWh. (The higher amperage 240V circuits, i.e. 40 amp, 50 amp or 60 amp would ensure that charging could be completed with that window.)
Work with the electrician that installed your current system. You can also obtain a list of local electricians from Tesla.
The Tesla Model Y no longer comes with the plug-in Tesla Mobile Connector ($230 US) or the hard-wired Tesla Wall Connector ($400 US.) You can also use a non-Tesla charging station with the Tesla SAE J1772 charging adapter that comes with the Tesla Model Y. (Reasons you may want to install non-Tesla charging equipment include the possibility of an available rebate from your electric utility or if you wish to keep options open for charging a future non-Tesla electric vehicle.)
Figure out whether you will primarily be charging at home or work. If you have the ability to charge at your place of work and it is free for your use then you will definitely want to maximize charging at work Monday through Friday, reserve charging at home for the weekend.
Determine how many miles you typically drive per day, during the week and on the weekend. Most people drive less than 30 miles per day but your mileage may differ. Charging at home using a standard 120V outlet you can easily manage if you drive up to 30 miles per day. More than that and you will want to consider installing a 240V charging circuit. The 240V charging circuits can be rated 20/30/40/50/60 amps. The primary advantage of going with a 60 amp circuit versus a 40 or 50 amp circuit, assuming your home has the capacity for the larger circuit, is speed of charging.
In actual use any of the 240V charging circuits could meet your charging needs. (The 60 amp circuit must be hard wired (no plug.) The other 240V charging circuits can either be terminated with the proper receptacle (6-20R, 14-30R, 14-50R) or hard wired (when using the Wall Connector.) The Mobile Connector kit comes with the NEMA 5-15 power plug that fits a standard 120V receptacle and the NEMA 14-50 power plug. The Mobile Connector can also be fitted with other optional power plug adapters that are available from Tesla.
Since you have solar you may want to charge during the day when possible, else late at night if you sign up for one of the off-peak rate plans. (These may push you to needing to charge from midnight to 0600 to obtain the lowest rate charge per kWh. (The higher amperage 240V circuits, i.e. 40 amp, 50 amp or 60 amp would ensure that charging could be completed with that window.)
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dhrivnak
Active Member
I suggest installing a NEMA 14-50 plug. It is very standard and flexible and works well with the Tesla mobile charger with the right connector. Or virtually any other charger you want. Charging is limited to 40 amps but that is more than enough to charge overnight.
Thank you! I am looking at that option on the websiste: Home Charging
Does that mean it is just an adaptor that you attach to your standard outlet and the charging cable the Tesla comes with plugs directly into? What is the installation cost for? Seems like you could also take it elsewhere with you or if just plugs in?
dhrivnak
Active Member
Likely but a NEMA 14-50 is normally a lot less than installing a hardwired wall charger. The Plug allows you take the charger with you and for other hobbies like an RV or welder.
Thank you! By "plug" you mean the NEMA 15-50 connector right?
Just to make sure I understand the terms in this option:
- Install a dryer type outlet in the garage -> attach the NEMA 14-50 "adaptor" to that outlet, and then attach the J1772 from the NEMA to the car?
Is the NEMA 14-50 referred to as an "adaptor" or a "plug"?
Is the J1772 referred to as a "mobile connector" an "adaptor" or a "charger"?
When looking at the forums these different terms are used, but I am unsure what they are specifically referring to?
That makes sense, thanks!
Just to make sure I understand the terms in this option:
- Install a dryer type outlet in the garage -> attach the NEMA 14-50 "adaptor" to that outlet, and then attach the J1772 from the NEMA to the car?
Is the NEMA 14-50 referred to as an "adaptor" or a "plug"?
Is the J1772 referred to as a "mobile connector" an "adaptor" or a "charger"?
When looking at the forums these different terms are used, but I am unsure what they are specifically referring to?
dhrivnak
Active Member
No sorry a NEMA 14-50 is a common 240v 50 amp outlet. It is used for stoves, RVs, EV chargers and often welders. A dryer plug would also work but dryers are 30 amp plugs limited to 24 amps continuous draw. If you use a plug for more than 2 hour you are to derate by using only 80% of the peak capacity. A dryer plug should work fine just a little slower. There are several dryer outlets so not sure the exact plug you likely would use.
A dryer-type receptacle (outlet) is for a 240V, 30 amp circuit. The current plug and receptacle used with the home electric clothes dryer is the 14-30. Older dryer receptacles include the 10-30 (found in older homes.)
The 14-50 receptacle (rated for 240V and up to 50 amps), in addition to EV charging, is used with RV motor homes and in the kitchen with electric stove/ovens.
You don't need the J1772 adapter when using the Tesla Mobile Connector or Wall Connector (the J1772 adapter is only used with a third-party (not Tesla) Level 1 or most often Level 2 charging stations. When using Electrify America or one of the other DC Fast Charge network charging stations you would need to use the Tesla CCS1 adapter (available from the Tesla store for $250.) You don't need an adapter to use the Tesla Supercharger network.
The cost of installing a new 14-50 receptacle for EV charging now must include a GFCI 50A circuit breaker (about $100.) A quality 14-50 receptacle from Hubbell, Bryant or Cooper (costs around $80). The cost equation now favors installing the Wall Connector over installing a new 14-50 receptacle.
Tesla Charging equipment recent pricing history: The Tesla Gen2 Mobile Connector used to come with the Tesla vehicle at no cost but now costs $230 additional (up from $200.) The Tesla Gen3 Wall connector used to cost $500, then $550 and now costs just $400.
You might want the Wall Connector if any of the following apply to your home charging:
You want to be able to charge at 240 volts and either 40 amps or 48 amp charging rate (Charging at 48 amps requires the Wall Connector. Charging at 40 amps requires either the Wall Connector or the rarely available for purchase Tesla Corded Mobile Connector. Third-party charging stations that enable charging at 40 amps are available at higher cost than the Tesla Corded Mobile Connector.)
You plan to install the Tesla charging equipment outside where it is exposed to the weather.
You value having a 24 foot long charging cord versus 18.5 feet for the Mobile Connector (not including the plug and electronics chassis.)
You might someday have a second EV and want a second charging station that can take advantage of automatic load balancing while charging (when two or more Wall Connectors are installed.)
You value being able to lock out unauthorized Tesla vehicles from charging. (You can set the Wall Connector to only allow Tesla vehicles with an authorized VIN to be able to charge.)
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ATPMSD
Active Member
Incorrect, a 14-50 outlet costs more than the wall connector.
Outlet is $80 (you cannot use the cheap $15 version), GFCI breaker is $150 (required by code), Mobile Connector is $230 and another $35 for some sort of cable management system totals $495
The Wall Connector is $400 + a $15 breaker = $415.
Also the Mobile Connector is limited to a maximum charge rate of 32A. The Wall Connector will deliver 40A on a 50A circuit or 48A on a 60A circuit.
It is not a good idea to use an EV outlet for other purposes, EV stations are supposed to be dedicated.
ATPMSD
Active Member
I agree a continuous duty load should be limited to 80% but I never heard of a 2-hour rule. Do you have a source?
No No NO
My 14-50 Hubbell connector was 45 bucks (at electrical distributor) (not Home Depot, thanks)
I had an 8 foot run to the panel, circuit breaker, all-in electrician install $225.
Total cost under $300.
California costs.
Wall Connector is 400 plus wiring plus breaker plus electrician fee (This is not a DIY job for most people)
While the WC buys somewhat faster charging, it's minutiae since most usage is overnight charging - lots of time to spare.
dhrivnak
Active Member
I was not able to confirm 2 hours but I did see 3 quoted. https://blog.se.com/datacenter/powe...g-confusion-80-vs-100-rated-circuit-breakers/
dhrivnak
Active Member
That is NOT my experience as most electricians in our area quote less for a NEMA 14-50 than for a hard wired charger. And if you move it is not easy to unwire.
While it is impressive you were able to find a Hubbel outlet for $45, the rest of the costs don't make any sense. This sounds like you don't have the required GFCI breaker. That is about $130, as @ATPMSD was pointing out.
So with just $45 for your outlet plus $130 for the breaker, that is $175 in parts, before even adding in the wire or conduit cost. That puts it to about $200 or more just for the parts only. An electrician bid and showed up and did the work for twenty bucks? That doesn't make sense.
That GFCI breaker cost is the big gotcha now that code requires it, which makes the outlet job so much more expensive than it used to be. So there really isn't any cost advantage for the outlet anymore.
The requirement for GFCI protection on new circuit installations with the NEMA 14-50 receptacle for EV charging was added to the 2017 revision of the NEC. Since the 2020 revision of the NEC GFCI protection is required for all new receptacles used for EV charging. This does not apply to hard-wired installations.
Older installations (before 2017) do not require the GFCI. All of the states have not yet adopted the latest revisions of the NEC.
https://www.esfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Full-sized-adoption-Map-October-2021.pdf
Older installations (before 2017) do not require the GFCI. All of the states have not yet adopted the latest revisions of the NEC.
https://www.esfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Full-sized-adoption-Map-October-2021.pdf
ATPMSD
Active Member
dhrivnak
Active Member
While I agree a GFCI is safer, it is not required in most jurisdictions as most have yet to adopt the latest code. And while GFCI is safer there are 10's of thousands of campgrounds across the USA that do not have GFCI NEMA 14-50's as do virtually all stoves installed in the USA. And shock risks are very low. Not 0 but low. It is good to follow the latest codes, but codes take time to adopt and many are 4+ years behind adopting the latest revision. And as such the author is likely adhering to the latest codes for his area.
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The GFCI protection requirement for the NEMA 14-50, now other receptacles only applies to EV charging applications. Electrically RVs are considered to have a distribution panel, not a receptacle as far as the 14-50 connection. 14-50 receptacles for RVs do not require GFCI protection (Note: GFCI is incompatible with most RV power connections.)
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