What do you think is causing the limited tow capability of the new Cybertruck?

[Skotty]

The big towing issue in my opinion is not the 11K limit, but rather that they don't seem to have a > 340 mile battery option anymore like originally planned. If they really want to win on towing, there needs to be a bigger battery option. No one else has a bigger battery option either, but still, Tesla could have gone "beast mode" on this, but apparently decided not to? That's kind of disappointing.

I could be wrong, but I doubt they will really offer a bed battery extender. I consider that about as likely as the snake charger, or maybe the Model S battery swap stations. I still file it under vaporware.

 

[GeorgeC1]

11k lbs towing for both the CT and Rivian. In that regard, stump pulling is the same - however, the Rivian is quad motor, one for each wheel. I would prefer that over two in the rear and one in the front CT configuration).... To Each, as they say....

The Rivian is a much smaller vehicle. It’s actually smaller than a ½ ton pickup.

 

[jebinc]

The Rivian is a much smaller vehicle. It’s actually smaller than a ½ ton pickup.

Not sure I understand your point. The Rivian and CT are both rated for 11k lbs. The Rivian actually weights considerably more than the CT, so that's a plus for the Rivian, towing/stability wise.

 

[gtgarner]

The Rivian is a much smaller vehicle. It’s actually smaller than a ½ ton pickup.

The Rivian is "much" smaller?

I'm not seeing it.

 

[coleAK]

No idea what it’s using… for all we know, that pull was staged - using a modified production truck.

Crappy air suspension.

 

[MP3Mike]

No one else has a bigger battery option either,

Well GM puts a ~200kWh pack in the Hummer EV and Silverado EV... (But the Silverado EV only has a 10,000 lb. towing capacity.)

but still, Tesla could have gone "beast mode" on this, but apparently decided not to?

They sort of answered that in the video with Sandy Munro. They said that most people don't use/need the extra battery capacity, so they decided to not put it in to "waste" the cells. Instead they will offer the ranger extender for people that actually need the extra capacity.

 

[buckets0fun]

Well GM puts a ~200kWh pack in the Hummer EV and Silverado EV... (But the Silverado EV only has a 10,000 lb. towing capacity.)

I believe the HEV is something like 22XkWh, that pack has to weigh near a complete model 3.

Is GM still putting out the work version of the Silverado that does 20k(?) lbs?

 

[gtgarner]

If the inflation and interest rates don't come down, GM and Ford will be out of the EV business. They are losing money with each EV delivery as of the 4th quarter 2023.

Bottom line - customers can't afford the high monthly payments due to high interest rates and inflation.

It doesn't matter how good anyone's vehicle is - if they can't sell them.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/10/gm-abandons-goal-of-building-400000-evs-in-north-america-by-mid-2024/#:~:text=GM%20has%20announced%20that%20it%20is%20pulling%20back,in%20North%20America%20by%20the%20end%20of%202025.

Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious

Ford said customers in North America are unwilling to pay a premium for an EV.

www.cnbc.com

 

[gtgarner]

I believe the HEV is something like 22XkWh, that pack has to weigh near a complete model 3.

Is GM still putting out the work version of the Silverado that does 20k(?) lbs?

If the inflation and interest rates don't come down, GM and Ford will be out of the EV business. They are losing money with each EV delivery as of the 4th quarter 2023.

Bottom line - customers can't afford the high monthly payments due to high interest rates and inflation. If everyone was purchasing EVs with cash it would be a totally different story.

It doesn't matter how good anyone's vehicle is - if they can't sell them.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/10/gm-abandons-goal-of-building-400000-evs-in-north-america-by-mid-2024/#:~:text=GM%20has%20announced%20that%20it%20is%20pulling%20back,in%20North%20America%20by%20the%20end%20of%202025.

Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious

Ford said customers in North America are unwilling to pay a premium for an EV.

www.cnbc.com

 

[HitchHiker71]

I believe the HEV is something like 22XkWh, that pack has to weigh near a complete model 3.

Is GM still putting out the work version of the Silverado that does 20k(?) lbs?

It's a 246kw gross/213kw usable Ultium pack. Same pack is used for all of their EV pickups (Hummer, Silverado, Sierra). Not sure on the 20k lb Silverado - that was a "future" type item, not on the near term roadmap. Given their challenges ramping the WT3/WT4, I doubt they'll be focused on introducing the 20klb towing option any time soon.

 

[T3SLAROD]

If the inflation and interest rates don't come down, GM and Ford will be out of the EV business. They are losing money with each EV delivery as of the 4th quarter 2023.

Bottom line - customers can't afford the high monthly payments due to high interest rates and inflation.

It doesn't matter how good anyone's vehicle is - if they can't sell them.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/10/gm-abandons-goal-of-building-400000-evs-in-north-america-by-mid-2024/#:~:text=GM%20has%20announced%20that%20it%20is%20pulling%20back,in%20North%20America%20by%20the%20end%20of%202025.

Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious

Ford said customers in North America are unwilling to pay a premium for an EV.

www.cnbc.com

I doubt it, they sell plenty of ICE to make EV’s special order. GM though is selling multiple EVs through different brands

 

[gtgarner]

I doubt it, they sell plenty of ICE to make EV’s special order. GM though is selling multiple EVs through different brands

This is not a matter of opinion to be able to doubt it. The CEO's are stating what they aren't doing anymore concerning EVs. I posted the articles above.



I walked into Hawkinson Chevrolet here in the Illinois area about 4 months ago.

They told me that there is no way to get a Hummer EV from them. They don't sell them. If dealerships won't sell the EV's it doesn't matter what the Companies do or want to do. GM can't force a dealership to buy their vehicle. GM can't force a dealership to repair their vehicle.

Companies like GM and Ford have a real battle on their hands with their dealerships / inflation / interest rates.

 

[T3SLAROD]

This is not a matter of opinion. The CEO's are stating what they aren't doing anymore concerning EVs. I posted the articles.



I walked into Hawkinson Chevrolet here in the Illinois area about 4 months ago.

They told me that there is no way to get a Hummer EV from them. They don't sell them. If dealerships won't sell the EV's it doesn't matter what the Companies do or want to do. GM can't force a dealership to buy a certain vehicle.

I just said GM has a problem.

Ford has no such issue. Ford is not leaving the EV business, will they slow down? Of course, but they aren’t going anywhere considering they sell the best EV Truck available at an attainable price.

 

[gtgarner]

I just said GM has a problem.

Ford has no such issue. Ford is not leaving the EV business, will they slow down? Of course, but they aren’t going anywhere considering they sell the best EV Truck available at an attainable price.

Ford is losing money on every single ev sold.

Its not a matter of opinion.

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold#:~:text=It%20appears%20that%20Ford%20Model%20e%20recorded%20a,2022.%20The%20margins%20are%20also%20in%20the%20red.

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Despite a 44 percent increase in EV deliveries, Ford's EV losses continued to rise in the Q3, with the company posting an operating loss of $1.3 billion.

insideevs.com

 

[buckets0fun]

Ford is losing money on every single ev sold.

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold#:~:text=It%20appears%20that%20Ford%20Model%20e%20recorded%20a,2022.%20The%20margins%20are%20also%20in%20the%20red.

Rivian too, something like 34k$/ea.
Lucid as well.

R&D / tooling costs/building a company take a bit of sales to “cancel out”

 

[buckets0fun]

This is not a matter of opinion to be able to doubt it. The CEO's are stating what they aren't doing anymore concerning EVs. I posted the articles above.



I walked into Hawkinson Chevrolet here in the Illinois area about 4 months ago.

They told me that there is no way to get a Hummer EV from them. They don't sell them. If dealerships won't sell the EV's it doesn't matter what the Companies do or want to do. GM can't force a dealership to buy their vehicle. GM can't force a dealership to repair their vehicle.

Companies like GM and Ford have a real battle on their hands with their dealerships / inflation / interest rates.

Went to 3 GM dealers to buy the HEV SUV, was told that like the truck they must keep the unit on lot until a certain date.

GM did this at launch of the HEV truck when rates were low.

(It seems, based upon the last 24yrs of EVs being “sold” in this country) EV is a compliance vehicle to most legacy brands.

EV1, rav4 EV gen1, 500e, VW’s MEB platform.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Ford is losing money on every single ev sold.

Its not a matter of opinion.

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold#:~:text=It%20appears%20that%20Ford%20Model%20e%20recorded%20a,2022.%20The%20margins%20are%20also%20in%20the%20red.

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Despite a 44 percent increase in EV deliveries, Ford's EV losses continued to rise in the Q3, with the company posting an operating loss of $1.3 billion.

insideevs.com

They can afford to lose money on every single ev sold based on ICE and worldwide sales. They aren't going anywhere as much as you are wishing they just disappear so Tesla can remain on top. It's not going to happen.

There's a reason Musk is crying about rates, his incentives are leaving and without EV sales, he's done. Ford doesn't need to sell EV's big difference.

 

[coleAK]

Ford is losing money on every single ev sold.

Its not a matter of opinion.

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold#:~:text=It%20appears%20that%20Ford%20Model%20e%20recorded%20a,2022.%20The%20margins%20are%20also%20in%20the%20red.

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Despite a 44 percent increase in EV deliveries, Ford's EV losses continued to rise in the Q3, with the company posting an operating loss of $1.3 billion.

insideevs.com

RnD takes $$$$$$

It took Tesla 9 years of selling EVs before they turned a profit, so they lost money on every EV they sold until some time in 2020. The only reason they aren’t losing money still on every S and X is it is a >10 year old platform.

Had the model 3 not been as successful as it is Tesla would likely be under by now (and likely owned by some other brand, my bet is Apple).

 

[coleAK]

Went to 3 GM dealers to buy the HEV SUV, was told that like the truck they must keep the unit on lot until a certain date.

GM did this at launch of the HEV truck when rates were low.

(It seems, based upon the last 24yrs of EVs being “sold” in this country) EV is a compliance vehicle to most legacy brands.

EV1, rav4 EV gen1, 500e, VW’s MEB platform.

This argument is no different with Tesla. Do they have some magic immunity from rates and inflation?

I just got back from my place on Oahu there were a ton of MB EQS driving around. Saw way more of them then refreshed model S.

 

[buckets0fun]

every S and X is it is a >10 year old platform.

But it’s not.

You couldn’t shove plaid nuts and guts into a legacy S.

A better comparison is a lucid and a legacy S, same odd electronic implementation. Almost like they copied the nose cone S and changed the body. (And made it handle, not surprised as the e39m5 was the benchmark)