What will Model 3 do to Chevy Bolt sales?

[kpotter86]

buying a Tesla with supercharger access gives me the security that IF I want to make a longer trip, I will have access to a easy to use really fast charging network almost everywhere I can think I will ever want to drive in Europe. That the it is "free" is a plus, but not essential.

Like I said, it's nice to have if you planned on taking a longer trip.. But I don't think its as much a selling point as a lot of people make it out to be. For the most part I think EVs are still second cars for most people. Its hard to argue either way anyways until the cost is known. Is $2,000-3,000 extra for supercharger access worth it if you only take 1-2 longer trips a year?

When the model 3 configurator eventually launches, I'll probably not pay the extra for supercharger access, especially if its just a software unlock that I can access at anytime.

 

[kpotter86]

A base Model 3 with the Supercharger option will be close in price to a base Bolt which will not have a vast high speed DC charging network available to it.

I hope you're right but IMO this is still an unknown.

 

[Jopo43]

Cause GM to try and legislate TESLA out of business.....
Cause gm to try and TUCKER .....TESLA

 

[S3XY]

Do we know for certain if supercharger access will be free? I find it hard to imagine it would be at the low base price they're quoting for the Model 3. Also, I'd think Tesla would need a HUGE supercharger building/upgrade program to keep up with the demand.. You kind of lose the benefit of supercharging if you have to wait for a stall to become available.

Hopefully we learn enough come March 31st.

Not if 200,000 of your cousins are buying them. :tongue:

 

[kpotter86]

Not if 200,000 of your cousins are buying them. :tongue:

Ha, his supercharger use has more to do with the fact that there really isn't any local to him. I'm sure he would use them a lot more if he had one close, but not having one close hasn't really hampered him in any way. The nearest one is in Ann Arbor which is about an hours drive, we drove down there a couple days after he got his car pretty much just to check it out.

 

[Model 3]

Ha, his supercharger use has more to do with the fact that there really isn't any local to him. I'm sure he would use them a lot more if he had one close, but not having one close hasn't really hampered him in any way. The nearest one is in Ann Arbor which is about an hours drive, we drove down there a couple days after he got his car pretty much just to check it out.

In the theory any supercharger close to home should be the least used. (Yes, I know it is exceptions to this theory.) Where I live I have one supercharger about (a bit over) 1 hour to the south, one 1 and a half hour to the west, one 1 and a half hour to the east and one 1 and a half hour (edit: or maybe closer to two?) to the north (there is one under planing just one hour to the north). This is perfect for me! There is been talked about one that may come only half an hour away to the south, but that is to close to have much value to me. Will I never use it if it is build? Did not say that, but it will not be a part of my buying decision - deciding between a TM3, a Ampera-e or the next generation (long-range) Leaf - unlike the other mentioned superchargers. The only one I'm missing is one about one to one and a half hours drive to the north-east.

 

[Candleflame]

you live in norway where everyone lives in a villa with 4 parking garages. If Tesla wants to be successfull in china, crowded cities, uk etc they have to provide charging solutions which are not confined to home charging.

London is a good example of this. There are tons of superchargers in London.

 

[Model 3]

you live in norway where everyone lives in a villa with 4 parking garages.

I wish... But sorry, I will have to decide between the cab and the Tesla for who will live inside the one carport I have, and I'm afraid the cab wins and the TM3 will have to live outside in the snow and rain...

If Tesla wants to be successfull in china, crowded cities, uk etc they have to provide charging solutions which are not confined to home charging.

London is a good example of this. There are tons of superchargers in London.

You are right in that this is a problem that needs to be solved to get the world over from fossil cars to the future of EV's. But I don't think superchargers - or anything like it - is the long term solution. Tesla will have an upper hand if they can make a real solution on this problem. Superchargers in the cities is in my opinion just a short term fix until a real solution is found. And nowhere in what I replied to was any mention that I saw about not been able to charge at home...

If you do live in an apartment in a big city with one or more city-supercharger and no way to be able to charge "at home" - then it is something else completely.

 

[flankspeed8]

In the theory any supercharger close to home should be the least used. (Yes, I know it is exceptions to this theory.)

I think I would disagree. If there is a Super Charger in Minneapolis and I live 50 miles to the southeast of that SuperCharger, potentially every trip I take up the I94 corridor would be a Super Charger event even though it is only 50 miles away. It is that charger that will let me get to my destination 100 miles away and back. Especially in the winter. Most of us outside California will not have a SuperCharger within 10 miles of our homes. Would it be abusive to use a SC 50 miles away every day if I work up that way?

 

[Model 3]

I think I would disagree. If there is a Super Charger in Minneapolis and I live 50 miles to the southeast of that SuperCharger, potentially every trip I take up the I94 corridor would be a Super Charger event even though it is only 50 miles away. It is that charger that will let me get to my destination 100 miles away and back. Especially in the winter. Most of us outside California will not have a SuperCharger within 10 miles of our homes. Would it be abusive to use a SC 50 miles away every day if I work up that way?

I did say "In the theory" and "Yes, I know it is exceptions to this theory".

 

[gregincal]

I think I would disagree. If there is a Super Charger in Minneapolis and I live 50 miles to the southeast of that SuperCharger, potentially every trip I take up the I94 corridor would be a Super Charger event even though it is only 50 miles away. It is that charger that will let me get to my destination 100 miles away and back. Especially in the winter. Most of us outside California will not have a SuperCharger within 10 miles of our homes. Would it be abusive to use a SC 50 miles away every day if I work up that way?

If you need the supercharger to get back to your home, then that's what it is intended for. If you can easily make it back to your home without charging, then I'm not sure it's abusive but it's certainly a stupid waste of time. It's like deciding to hang out at a gas station because it's just so much fun.

 

[S3XY]

You are right in that this is a problem that needs to be solved to get the world over from fossil cars to the future of EV's. But I don't think superchargers - or anything like it - is the long term solution. Tesla will have an upper hand if they can make a real solution on this problem. Superchargers in the cities is in my opinion just a short term fix until a real solution is found. And nowhere in what I replied to was any mention that I saw about not been able to charge at home...

Superchargers could be the answer if they can get to where you can charge up from 10% to around 80% SoC in about 5 minutes. Then it would be similar to gassing up. There would also have to be enough of them so you don't have to drive 20 miles to get to one and there won't be lines of EV's waiting there to charge up.

 

[Twiglett]

Superchargers could be the answer if they can get to where you can charge up from 10% to around 80% SoC in about 5 minutes. Then it would be similar to gassing up. There would also have to be enough of them so you don't have to drive 20 miles to get to one and there won't be lines of EV's waiting there to charge up.

I don't think that is actually the problem.
Just adding a chunk more range with current supercharger capability would still get you enough charge to get from potty break to potty break (or coffee maybe) then to lunch.
Even the current Model S get you a significant amount of drive time between refills and each supercharger is somewhere where you can usually be doing something other than waiting around.
The vast majority of day to day EV driving doesn't need fast charging - thats only really needed to get beyond the built in range of the car.

 

[S3XY]

True, but it also helps to overcome not being able to charge at home. Plus it might swing many ICEr's since they wouldn't have the fear of having to re-learn "refueling" habits.

 

[Model 3]

Then it would be similar to gassing up.

But do we want to do the "similar to gassing up" thing? No, at least I don't.

Most of the time the car is parked, whenever it is in a private or public garage, at a parking lot or at street parking. And this is the time I want my car to charge - and it does not need to be fast at all. The only time I want to spend my time charging/filling up my car is on a trip, and that's when it also need to be fast - fast enough to be filled in the same time I'm done "emptying"/"filling up" my self and my passengers. When doing my driving in a city I don't want to go to somewhere special and sit around waiting - even just 5 minutes - for it to be filled/charged.

Pictures from Oslo:

 

[Twiglett]

But do we want to do the "similar to gassing up" thing? No, at least I don't.

Most of the time the car is parked, whenever it is in a private or public garage, at a parking lot or at street parking. And this is the time I want my car to charge - and it does not need to be fast at all. The only time I want to spend my time charging/filling up my car is on a trip, and that's when it also need to be fast - fast enough to be filled in the same time I'm done "emptying"/"filling up" my self and my passengers. When doing my driving in a city I don't want to go to somewhere special and sit around waiting - even just 5 minutes - for it to be filled/charged.

Pictures from Oslo:

View attachment 112625View attachment 112626

Exactly this.
I don't want the gassing up model at all - that has no benefit.
The EV model is to spend 10 seconds plugging in then walk away and do something useful while your car charges up.
My local cinema has a stack of free charge points outside so you can watch a movie and fill up at the same time.
Or go shopping and charge etc etc
Lots of things you can do instead of waiting around having to waste time managing the fill-up process.

 

[Darryl]

I think Tesla has played their hand well. They will show off the Model 3 which I think will make the bolt (Leaf 2?) look obsolete nearly 12 months before it is even on sale. I feel like this will have a very large impact on Bolt sales. Anyone in the market for a Bolt will probably know about the Model 3.

Thoughts?

You are talking apples and oranges. The Bolt is a low cost sub-compact with option price around $27. Tesla Model 3 will be considered still in the luxury sedan catagory with starting price at $35k probably with option around $75k.

 

[Twiglett]

You are talking apples and oranges. The Bolt is a low cost sub-compact with option price around $27. Tesla Model 3 will be considered still in the luxury sedan catagory with starting price at $35k probably with option around $75k.

How do you get the Bolt to $27K - Chevrolet are saying its (as low as) 30K AFTER tax credit, not before, so it starts at $37500 (yes, 2500 more than the Model 3).
Now, the 2017 Volt base price is $33K, add in some options to get something like AP etc and you end up with $44K - apply that uptick to the Bolt and you end up with the properly optioned Bolt costing $48500 pre-credit.
Just like every other car out there including the Model 3 - options cost more money.

But it is still apples/oranges. A person looking at a Chevy Malibu or Impala isn't cross shopping to a 320i or an A4.

 

[ratsbew]

All Model 3 should have supercharger capability, but the actual charge should be paid through your credit card that is authorized through the touch screen (or automatically with an active account). I think pay-per-use will prevent abuse and also not burden Tesla with extra costs.

A flat rate of $1 per charge and $6/hour - $0.05 cents per minute (parking fee) should cover costs and discourage camping in a stall.

 

[McRat]

How do you get the Bolt to $27K - Chevrolet are saying its (as low as) 30K AFTER tax credit, not before, so it starts at $37500 (yes, 2500 more than the Model 3).
Now, the 2017 Volt base price is $33K, add in some options to get something like AP etc and you end up with $44K - apply that uptick to the Bolt and you end up with the properly optioned Bolt costing $48500 pre-credit.
Just like every other car out there including the Model 3 - options cost more money.

But it is still apples/oranges. A person looking at a Chevy Malibu or Impala isn't cross shopping to a 320i or an A4.

In California, where the initial release of the Bolt will most likely occur, the Bolt will suckle $10,000 off the gov't teat. Then Chevy will have between $2k and $5k discounts via GM Card, Costco, Private Offer, Loyalty, Dealer programs, and perhaps even other GM programs.

The MSRP of a 2016 Volt is $33,170. They can be had for $25k including a 8.5% sales tax and all incentives. This was the price paid the first week of public sales.

The Bolt might go over $30k including all taxes and rebates, but it isn't actually likely. The Spark EV can be had for $18k including all taxes and rebates.