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What's normal AWD Front Motor Sound?
- Thread starter rorrim
- Start date
It sounds a lot like mine...maybe a bit louder. Mine has gotten slightly quieter over the last 13,000 miles. I consider these noises a function of manufacturing tolerances that are too broad. There is nothing wrong Mechanically but the noises are especially irritating to those with good hearing. Tesla won’t fix it...because it’s operating properly...just with more noise than some.
Candleflame
Active Member
Are you saying you can hear the high pitched whining sound and beeping as well while cruising in your car?
Do you think it could an issue with inconsistent insulation as to why some have this issue and some don't or is it simply the motor variances? It's really strange that a noisy motor is considered in spec when the majority are not loud enough to be bothersome. This wouldn't go well telling someone with an ICE vehicle that it's normal for their belt to squeal and have to deal with it.
Nah, mine doesn't have the warning speaker. It's a much lower sound that changes with the speed of the motor.
Yes. I'll elaborate. If I have music or radio on, it would be near impossible to hear (certainly wouldn't pick up on it without knowing about it) and I tend to keep the volume down on such things. I want to say the range I hear it is 30km/h to 65km/h or so (19-40mph), which is a bit lower than others are saying. It only makes the phasing sound while keeping an even speed too - it speeds up a little bit if I'm increasing in speed, but with more acceleration it stops. Behaviour happens on flat sections as well as hills.
The reason this might not bother me is that it makes for good audio-to-speed feedback. In most ICE vehicles in familiar with, I can tell if I'm going the right speed just based on engine sound. In the Model 3 it's a bit harder, but I think I use this sound to tell if I'm keeping an even speed basically. I realize this is probably weird.
I test drove a new Model 3 Performance the other day and it was super quiet and could barely hear any motor noise at all (only on hard acceleration and then it was still barely audible). Night and day compared to my situation. So, how could the loud whining noises I'm hearing be considered "Normal" by Tesla?
I'm sure they know about it (you couldn't be the only customer to say something), but because it might possibly mean a motor replacement, they aren't in a hurry to do anything. It may very well not affect reliability, but to call it normal is a big stretch. The fact that I heard it on the video over the road noise means it's very noticeable.
Like you mentioned before, taking a test drive with a tech might be a good idea after the COVID issue settles down. Not that that might make a difference in their stance, but at least it'll be documented and a little harder for them to BS their way out of.
As for their tech taking a car on a test drive. Unless you saw it happen, I'm skeptical it even occurred. My guess is it's a standard BS response to that issue.
Like you mentioned before, taking a test drive with a tech might be a good idea after the COVID issue settles down. Not that that might make a difference in their stance, but at least it'll be documented and a little harder for them to BS their way out of.
As for their tech taking a car on a test drive. Unless you saw it happen, I'm skeptical it even occurred. My guess is it's a standard BS response to that issue.
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You are spot on! What I worry about is that they are probably correct that the sounds are normal for the motor and that it could just be an insulation installation issue causing the sounds to be heard in the cabin. I've seen videos of improper installation in the pillars which can amplify sounds a lot...if it's an insulation issue, it may not be fixable without tearing the car apart and hence why they aren't willing to fix it.
yerEVan
Active Member
That noise would drive me nuts. There is an understanding about hearing more road noise, but sometimes i like to drive without music/sound at all. And if they say just play the radio louder, I’d be pretty PO’d.
I would tell them to drive their demo Model 3 AWD and yours back to back and then decide if it’s acceptable. I’d be surprised if insulation could fix that noise. But I’m not a sound guy. Believe me, I hope it is insulation as replacing a motor is probably a difficult ask.
I would tell them to drive their demo Model 3 AWD and yours back to back and then decide if it’s acceptable. I’d be surprised if insulation could fix that noise. But I’m not a sound guy. Believe me, I hope it is insulation as replacing a motor is probably a difficult ask.
In general, everything related to the motor sound louder (acceleration, Regen, high pitch noises while cruising, etc.). Any ideas why the motor would be louder? If it is indeed normal in terms of operating, is there something that can make one motor much louder in all aspects than others? I'm new to electric vehicles so looking to better understand.
This is based on some hobby experience while being somewhat educated in the matter (I'm far from an engineer here),
There are basically two sources of noise for electric drive units. One would be mechanical noises (gearing, etc.), the other being electrically induced but partly mechanical in nature.
How applicable this is to the Model 3, I don't know, but an example with brushed DC motors: these are normally driven by "Pulse Width Modulation", or PWM. Instead of varying the voltage to control the speed, you very rapidly switch the motor on and off. Controlling how long it is on vs. off sort of approximates varying the voltage, thus where the idea of "modulating" the "pulse width" comes from.
When I say this is switched very rapidly, I mean well above what you could do with your hand and a switch. Between hundreds of time per second and many thousand - that is, many 100Hz or even well above 10kHz. Sometimes, the switching frequency is actually within the same frequency range of hearing as the human ear. If these hard on/off pulses do anything like moving electrical coils around slightly (they do!), they can actually create sound with these vibrations. This is more or less the same reason you hear the 60Hz hum in some places, since North American electrical is a 60Hz AC waveform. If you've ever heard a high pitch whine from a power adapter or something, they're varying voltage using a similar switching idea (look up "switched-mode power supplies"), and happen to be using a frequency in the audible range. Generally, higher power applications can shove around coils and such easier (what with the higher electromagnetic fields and such), which is why you generally hear the "hum" around bigger equipment. EVs are also very high power motors.
So. The Model 3, on neither side, has a brushed DC motor like in my example. They're more like 3 phase AC motors, but these can still have electrical noise. Not just the primary frequency driving the motors, but all the electronics included in managing that power and any secondary switching frequencies. The ~370V pack (about 400V maximum) is DC voltage, but needs to be made into approximately AC waveforms to drive these motors. Which is why they have "drive inverters" to do this job (another term in this context is "variable frequency drive" or VFD, a more industrial term). They have all sorts of switching electronics inside to convert that DC voltage to the appropriate frequency waveform (actually, 3 of them) at any given time to get the requested torque out of the motors at a given RPM. Any number of things in this process could generate audible noise, including the primary drive high-voltage waveform supplied to the motors.
That doesn't pinpoint exactly which bit is making the noises we hear, but gives a general idea of the causes of such noises. I find the "beeping" from the front motor most interesting because the motor seems to be coasting in that state. However, I wonder if it's something to do with the "powered neutral" that Tesla seems to use (to my understanding, they need to actively match things to emulate neutral - it's not using power really, but there would still be switching going on and such). I will make a strong statement that should be true 99.999% of the time: When you hear the front motor "beeping", it is not being used for propulsion. It is coasting. The rear motor is providing all the forward power.
This might have been posted already, but start from # 26 in this thread:
High pitched noise from drive unit
Everything I've gathered from that thread about the noise:
-It is fairly common
-It might be the inverters
-It is considered normal according to Tesla
-Sound dampening helped someone (performed by a SC - trunk area)
-Replacing the front drive unit solved the problem for 1 member
-Everyone is mentioning the rear motor as the culprit. And RWD drive owners are also complaining
-It might be programming related as one person mentioned getting it after a certain update
-It might be a normal for it to occur after a certain number of miles
High pitched noise from drive unit
Everything I've gathered from that thread about the noise:
-It is fairly common
-It might be the inverters
-It is considered normal according to Tesla
-Sound dampening helped someone (performed by a SC - trunk area)
-Replacing the front drive unit solved the problem for 1 member
-Everyone is mentioning the rear motor as the culprit. And RWD drive owners are also complaining
-It might be programming related as one person mentioned getting it after a certain update
-It might be a normal for it to occur after a certain number of miles
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