What's the likelihood we will see Speed Limit Sign recognition?

[Cheburashka]

You should read the patent before making such definitive claims.

I did and it would seem like detecting stop signs would infringe that patent maybe. I'm not an attorney though.

 

[Kiwiadventure]

BMW has speed sign recognition and I cannot seeing BMW paying some third party.

 

[PhilDavid]

BMW has speed sign recognition and I cannot seeing BMW paying some third party.

Unless I am mistaken BMW uses MobileEye, the owner of this patent that I feel should never have been awarded.

I find it crazy that you can get a patent for reading speed limit signs. It's basic OCR and pattern matching.

I mean does that mean you can patent recognizing all the various traffic signs so no one else can build software to drive a car legally?!

 

[whitex]

Unless I am mistaken BMW uses MobileEye, the owner of this patent that I feel should never have been awarded.

I find it crazy that you can get a patent for reading speed limit signs. It's basic OCR and pattern matching.

I mean does that mean you can patent recognizing all the various traffic signs so no one else can build software to drive a car legally?!

Waymo (Google) doesn't use Mobile AFAIK, and I'm sure their self driving cars read signs (I mean the actual self driving cars they have ridesharing in AZ and CA, the ones which don't even require a safety driver, not Tesla FSD).

 

[PhilDavid]

Waymo (Google) doesn't use Mobile AFAIK, and I'm sure their self driving cars read signs (I mean the actual self driving cars they have ridesharing in AZ and CA, the ones which don't even require a safety driver, not Tesla FSD).

Tesla has been working on AP in-house now for a while and i bet they have a bunch of patents they have amassed as well and I wonder if MobileEye/Intel might be infringing on those patents... What I'm getting at is perhaps they can all agree to across licensing agreement and essentially leave everyone alone and let them innovate.

MobileEye should never have been granted the speed limit sign recognition patent. Imagine if different companies had patents for cross walk, curb, people, animal, pothole, etc., detection. No one would them be able to build FSD software. It's ridiculous.

 

[Bmac]

[/Quote] Tesla has been working on AP in-house now for a while and i bet they have a bunch of patents they have amassed as well and I wonder if MobileEye/Intel might be infringing on those patents...[/Quote]

Since Elon has stated in 2014 that all Tesla patents are royalty free, I wonder if Intel would return the favor with its MobileEye patent estate.

 

[PhilDavid]

Tesla has been working on AP in-house now for a while and i bet they have a bunch of patents they have amassed as well and I wonder if MobileEye/Intel might be infringing on those patents...[/Quote]

Since Elon has stated in 2014 that all Tesla patents are royalty free, I wonder if Intel would return the favor with its MobileEye patent estate.[/QUOTE]

He said they are royalty free in good faith.

Meaning, any patent infringement suit will make anyone's use of Tesla patents not in good faith.

I hope they have amassed such a large patent collection that even Intel would think twice about pushing their luck with this silly speed limit sign recognition patent.

 

[bob_p]

Musk has stated that FSD using HD resolution maps won't work. Since the FSD system must be able to recognize current driving conditions to operate safely, the HD maps really don't provide any value.

Same is true with using stored speed limit data. To operate safely - and obeying all traffic laws (which will likely be the requirement for receiving regulatory approval to operate FSD), the FSD system must be able to detect and obey all traffic signs & signals - which includes stop signs, stop lights, speed limit signs, and possibly even manual signals provided by police.

Clearly Tesla has known about this situation since they split from Mobileye - and must have a plan for dealing with this, otherwise, they'll never get FSD working and approved for use. [With the possible exception of countries where IP protection is weak - China.]

 

[PhilDavid]

Musk has stated that FSD using HD resolution maps won't work. Since the FSD system must be able to recognize current driving conditions to operate safely, the HD maps really don't provide any value.

Same is true with using stored speed limit data. To operate safely - and obeying all traffic laws (which will likely be the requirement for receiving regulatory approval to operate FSD), the FSD system must be able to detect and obey all traffic signs & signals - which includes stop signs, stop lights, speed limit signs, and possibly even manual signals provided by police.

Clearly Tesla has known about this situation since they split from Mobileye - and must have a plan for dealing with this, otherwise, they'll never get FSD working and approved for use. [With the possible exception of countries where IP protection is weak - China.]

Speed limit sign recognition is a must when traveling construction zones as many have temporary speed limit signs.

One way or another they'll have ti figure out a way to read speed limit signs in 2020...

 

[dbldwn02]

Ok, so here's a brain bender for you all. I drive to/from work on an 8 mile stretch of fairly straight two-lane road. The actual speed limit is 55mph and has been for 3 years. Driving south the car thinks it's 45mph. Driving north it says 55mph. So I get to use my autopilot for the ride home but not going to work. I know Tesla doesn't care but I send an e-mail once a year asking for them to update the data or to buy their map data from someone else.

 

[PhilDavid]

Ok, so here's a brain bender for you all. I drive to/from work on an 8 mile stretch of fairly straight two-lane road. The actual speed limit is 55mph and has been for 3 years. Driving south the car thinks it's 45mph. Driving north it says 55mph. So I get to use my autopilot for the ride home but not going to work. I know Tesla doesn't care but I send an e-mail once a year asking for them to update the data or to buy their map data from someone else.

This is why they need to figure out a way to read those speed limit signs. Around where i live, several major streets have had speed limit changes that the car's maps are not aware of.

 

[Chaz]

Those of us with old, obsolete AP1 cars have had this capability for years.

Bruce.

I actually got into a disagreement about this at the Service Center. After I went from an AP1 Model S to an AP2, I noticed that on the same streets around my home, the AP2 car could no longer read the speed limit sign as my AP1 car could. I was told by the SC that the Model S could never do that and that it was only GPS-based. I disagreed, as my older Model S could even pick up temporary construction zone signs that were only up for a day or two. I also seem to remember that the AP1 cars would sometimes confuse black and white route signs as speed limit signs (i.e. Route 100 as the speed limit).

 

[Casavant]

I actually got into a disagreement about this at the Service Center. After I went from an AP1 Model S to an AP2, I noticed that on the same streets around my home, the AP2 car could no longer read the speed limit sign as my AP1 car could. I was told by the SC that the Model S could never do that and that it was only GPS-based. I disagreed, as my older Model S could even pick up temporary construction zone signs that were only up for a day or two. I also seem to remember that the AP1 cars would sometimes confuse black and white route signs as speed limit signs (i.e. Route 100 as the speed limit).

Agree with you... I've had the same conversation!

 

[PhilDavid]

I actually got into a disagreement about this at the Service Center. After I went from an AP1 Model S to an AP2, I noticed that on the same streets around my home, the AP2 car could no longer read the speed limit sign as my AP1 car could. I was told by the SC that the Model S could never do that and that it was only GPS-based. I disagreed, as my older Model S could even pick up temporary construction zone signs that were only up for a day or two. I also seem to remember that the AP1 cars would sometimes confuse black and white route signs as speed limit signs (i.e. Route 100 as the speed limit).

"Occifer, but the speed limit sign I just went passed clearly read 100. Look, even my car read it"

 

[PhilDavid]

I am really impressed with how well the car reads signs painted on the road... Surely they must have some internal code that is recognizing and reading speed limit signs...

What a shame MobileEye was awarded such a dumb patent to read speed limit signs.

 

[PhilDavid]

Does anyone know how Wymo and others pursuing autonomous driving addresses the issue with the questionable patent Mobile Eye has for simple pattern and sign recognition?

Does coma.ai read speed limit signs?

 

[Cheburashka]

Does anyone know how Wymo and others pursuing autonomous driving addresses the issue with the questionable patent Mobile Eye has for simple pattern and sign recognition?

Does coma.ai read speed limit signs?

This has proven to be false. MobilEye does not have a patent on reading traffic signs, they have a patent on one method of doing it.

Tesla is already reading traffic signs with stop sign recognition, for example.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

This has proven to be false. MobilEye does not have a patent on reading traffic signs, they have a patent on one method of doing it.

Tesla is already reading traffic signs with stop sign recognition, for example.

The problem would be if that "one method" patent is actually written in sufficiently broad language that there isn't a viable alternate.

Regardless, Tesla can't have a self-driving car that doesn't read speed limit signs as well as a human driver. Which includes handling temporal speed limits around school zones and temporary speed limits around construction zones.

 

[Cheburashka]

The problem would be if that "one way" patent is actually written in sufficiently broad language that there isn't a viable alternate.

Then the patent is not enforceable. I've worked with patent attorneys. It's really not that bad - the chances of MobilEye (now Intel) suing Tesla over something as ubiquitous as being able to read text off a sign is low, and if they did, it would get thrown out rather quickly.

At the end of the day, Intel is not a patent troll and they don't want to be known as a patent troll.

 

[brucet999]

I actually got into a disagreement about this at the Service Center. After I went from an AP1 Model S to an AP2, I noticed that on the same streets around my home, the AP2 car could no longer read the speed limit sign as my AP1 car could. I was told by the SC that the Model S could never do that and that it was only GPS-based. I disagreed, as my older Model S could even pick up temporary construction zone signs that were only up for a day or two. I also seem to remember that the AP1 cars would sometimes confuse black and white route signs as speed limit signs (i.e. Route 100 as the speed limit).

You of course are correct about AP1 cars reading speed limit signs.
If it were GPS-based, then AP1 would not read an "end 35 mi" sign on US395 as "35mi" and prevent AP from resuming speed where the divided highway begins and city speed limit ends.