What's your predicted loyalty to Tesla whenever replacing current car?

[RonI]

Because I owned 2 model S’ you clearly can’t have a level headed conversation. If the brands so great what’s the need to defend it then?

Not defending Tesla, I already know the brand is going to take over the entire auto industry. I am simply expressing my opinions about some things and facts about others. BMW, will shrink by over 50%, Dealerships and many manufacturers will fail and sooner than most realize.

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla sales were up over 50% while "the entire industry to decline 22%". This is fundamental business, if your sales are up while everyone else's in your industry are down you have a long term winner.

lol, ok. You're right. The largest automaker in the world, whose sales declined under unprecedented circumstances last year by less than half the industry average, and is currently selling literally every car they can produce, is suffering from "evaporating demand".

/files Ronl into the troll folder

 

[pabla]

M5? Great example, Thanks. $120k vehicle that burns oil at a rate(1 qt every 500 miles) that's acceptable to BMW but not to any smart person. They blow rod bearings rendering the engine destroyed and $35k to replace it. This car is completely stupid. Super expensive brakes (2500 per axle)that wear out every 35k miles, Slow compared to my car (My '16 P100D destroys the M5 in a drag race and I can seat 7!), poor gas mileage, heavy, and super expensive to maintain. Has a nice interior though

A common story, 29,000 miles, oil condition sensor(measures oil level) goes bad and give zero notice of this, the vehicle does not have a dipstick to check oil level. Oil reaches damaging level within the miles recommended between oil changes and voilà. Anyone who buys one new is rich enough not to care about this because they will get rid of it by 25k miles. From there it's a cliff of depreciation and a mountain of expenses.

Can't talk too much about BMW since I have never owned one so lets talk about Audi since I have owned many.

My 2018 RS7, 50k kms replaced a fuel pump and and O2 sensor since ownership. Doesn't drink oil, not as fast a P100D but who cares its way more fun to drive. My 2021 Model S LR+ 5k kms, purchased in December 2020 from factory: trunk not closing, rear door not opening, front motor making a grinding noise (still not fixed). On top of that the paint was horrible on delivery, the rear bumper is a totally different shade of red than the rest of the car and there are little nubs on the paint. Car rattles over every and any bump, play music at around 80% volume everything vibrates and makes horrible noises. Compare that to any of my past Audi's even ones that are half the price none of that has happened.

Don't get me started on my 2014 P85, that thing basically had every major component replaced. You mention the blown rod bearings on an M5 how about nerfed supercharger speeds on the 85kw batteries, that warrants a 14k-20k (depending on remanufactured or new battery) replacement. Or lets talk about MCU1 $1500-$2500 right there. What about the leaky pano roofs, that's an easy $3k-$4k. Motors making grinding/clunking noises that's a few thousand $ job right there. Headlights in the facelift model, a few thousand and most of the time they need replacement longer down the line. What about all the false promises with FSD where users bought it way back in 2016 and were told it was coming soon, even now Elon is saying its coming soon but hes already months behind. Almost all of these have all been documented on these forums.

 

[RonI]

Yes, reclaiming the title of largest automaker in the world last year is certainly indicative of “evaporating demand.”

Toyota beats Volkswagen to become world's No.1 car seller in 2020

Toyota overtook Volkswagen in sales last year and became top car seller in 2020.

www.cnbc.com

You know you can state opinions without flatly making stuff up…

What did I make up?

 

[SO16]

Once giga Berlin and Austin are fully online, then we will see where things land. 2022 and 2023 will show a much clearer picture.

 

[RonI]

lol, ok. You're right. The largest automaker in the world, whose sales declined under unprecedented circumstances last year by less than half the industry average, and is currently selling literally every car they can produce, is suffering from "evaporating demand".

/files Ronl into the troll folder

So it was the "evaporating demand" comment that did it? Sorry. I was simply being satirical and using the "" from the prior post. I joined the Club to talk Tesla experiences and share some of my 30 + years of mechanical knowledge. Forums tend to be a hyperbole and filled with some very outspoken peeps and BMW forums are no exception. I was expecting to find Tesla supporters and am surprised and taken back by the Tesla hate here.

 

[SO16]

I was expecting to find Tesla supporters and am surprised and taken back by the Tesla hate here.

There are a handful of threads where some disgruntled current and former Tesla owners hang out. Misery loves company.

 

[cduzz]

There are a handful of threads where some current and former disgruntled Tesla owners hang out. Misery loves company.

The root problem here is that if you spend $400 on a bottle of whiskey you're probably going to get a good whiskey and it'll probably get you as drunk as you wanna get.

You can spend an enormous amount of money on a Tesla and end up with an angry bag of cats. And you won't necessarily get any remedies from the service centers, and there's no place else to go because they're all owned by TeslaCo, which is an extension of the ego of Elon Musk.

But as of now, when things are going well, and mostly they do go well (cold comfort to the people with the bag of cats) the car/charging network is light-years better than any other car out there. You can opine about the lack of massaging seats or the low-rent pleather steering wheel, etc, but at the end of the day, for 85-95% of car things, the tesla cars out car any other car on the road. And the legacy car companies simply aren't in a position to compete.

But, you're also at the whim of the Musketeer who may do something insane tomorrow. Again.

 

[RonI]

Can't talk too much about BMW since I have never owned one so lets talk about Audi since I have owned many.

My 2018 RS7, 50k kms replaced a fuel pump and and O2 sensor since ownership. Doesn't drink oil, not as fast a P100D but who cares its way more fun to drive. My 2021 Model S LR+ 5k kms, purchased in December 2020 from factory: trunk not closing, rear door not opening, front motor making a grinding noise (still not fixed). On top of that the paint was horrible on delivery, the rear bumper is a totally different shade of red than the rest of the car and there are little nubs on the paint. Car rattles over every and any bump, play music at around 80% volume everything vibrates and makes horrible noises. Compare that to any of my past Audi's even ones that are half the price none of that has happened.

Don't get me started on my 2014 P85, that thing basically had every major component replaced. You mention the blown rod bearings on an M5 how about nerfed supercharger speeds on the 85kw batteries, that warrants a 14k-20k (depending on remanufactured or new battery) replacement. Or lets talk about MCU1 $1500-$2500 right there. What about the leaky pano roofs, that's an easy $3k-$4k. Motors making grinding/clunking noises that's a few thousand $ job right there. Headlights in the facelift model, a few thousand and most of the time they need replacement longer down the line. What about all the false promises with FSD where users bought it way back in 2016 and were told it was coming soon, even now Elon is saying its coming soon but hes already months behind. Almost all of these have all been documented on these forums.

Sounds like you should be on the Audi Owners Club Forums.
It also sounds like you are outside of the US. I would guess any vehicle support from a newer US manufacturer outside the US would be a challenge and maybe something you should have considered before purchase. My S has been nearly perfect! What little items have cropped up have been quickly and properly fixed, I received a loaner and the repairs were done on time. My MCU was replaced under warranty and then upgraded at my expense.

 

[pabla]

Sounds like you should be on the Audi Owners Club Forums.
It also sounds like you are outside of the US. I would guess any vehicle support from a newer US manufacturer outside the US would be a challenge and maybe something you should have considered before purchase. My S has been nearly perfect! What little items have cropped up have been quickly and properly fixed, I received a loaner and the repairs were done on time. My MCU was replaced under warranty and then upgraded at my expense.

I am on the forums, and do call out the brand where necessary. What I stated in my post above is facts between my ownership experiences. I live in Canada and now have two SC near me, which has no effect on the reliability of the car, if something breaks it breaks regardless of how well the SC treat me or how close one is.

Congrats on your S being perfect, I am sure there a lot of other members who are on the same boat but there are also a lot of other members who are dealing with issue after issue.

PS a lot of bad SC stories on these forums have been coming out of US SC

 

[ucmndd]

I was expecting to find Tesla supporters and am surprised and taken back by the Tesla hate here.

I still love my car, and it's been far more reliable than anything German I've ever owned. I think you'll find a lot of us that have been around a while are increasingly disenchanted with Tesla as a company. I think it's important to be honest about such things. There's a bit of a blowback happening right now that is counteracting the years of unbridled fanaticism that the Church of Musk demands. Tesla has taken some pretty customer-hostile stances lately, particularly in regard to owners of older Model S cars, and it's not too surprising that some people have finally had enough.

Anyway. I'd rather not get off on the wrong foot - this place could use some fresh perspective, so welcome.

 

[RonI]

I still love my car, and it's been far more reliable than anything German I've ever owned. I think you'll find a lot of us that have been around a while are increasingly disenchanted with Tesla as a company. I think it's important to be honest about such things. There's a bit of a blowback happening right now that is counteracting the years of unbridled fanaticism that the Church of Musk demands. Tesla has taken some pretty customer-hostile stances lately, particularly in regard to owners of older Model S cars, and it's not too surprising that some people have finally had enough.

Anyway. I'd rather not get off on the wrong foot - this place could use some fresh perspective, so welcome.

As a mechanic and BMW/MINI repair shop owner, my perspective is Tesla is unlike many manufacturers. Once the vehicle is out of warranty the manufacturers move on. 2013-15 S vehicles were the iPhone 1 of automobiles, early adopters bought them and many sold or traded them in on the newest iPhone from Tesla. With new tech come some pain. I was at the BMW dealer when the 2002 745 was released, we bought back dozens of them. We called them unfixable cars. Life on the bleeding edge has its drawbacks.
Tesla vehicles are not unlike any other import or domestic vehicle it's just that after 5 years all other vehicles would be well out of warranty and although Tesla has limitations (i.e. 70% degradation), it's in writing and if people are not going to read the fine print they have no ground to stand on.

 

[PCMc]

I don't know. Mine are 5 years old and with the exception of a small scratch I made they look new. There's a lot of negativity about Tesla on this Tesla Club site. Appears some trolls with too much time on their hands are spreading FUD.

For those with "classic" nose cone / pre-refresh Model S claiming anyone criticizing the headlights is spreading FUD, you need to understand the headlights on 2016 refresh (new nose cone) Model S are totally different. The issue that many owners have experienced is the the LED "eyebrow" or DRL stripe the goes around the top of the headlight assemble. The issue is that this uses an LED light tube which appears to pre-maturely age with the symptoms that the brow first starts to yellow from the inner corner, progressively dims, until is appears as not illuminated at all. I have had three headlight assemblies replaced for this failure on my mid-2016 Model S (two on the passenger side, one of the drivers side).

The one that was replaced about 20 months ago on the passenger side is now showing signs of failing again (will be the third time on the passenger side). I has about about 12,000 miles and 21 months of actual vehicle operation. Over half of that time my car has actually been parked in my garage, unused, as I'm on a remote assignment and chose not to sell my car when I first went overseas.

Just as many early Model S owners had to live through the saga of multiple door handle replacements, those owner newer Model S vehicles are experience similar situations of repeat failures, but this time with a headlight assembly which costs somewhere over $1300 to replace out of warranty.

 

[Sbaimo]

I am on the forums, and do call out the brand where necessary. What I stated in my post above is facts between my ownership experiences. I live in Canada and now have two SC near me, which has no effect on the reliability of the car, if something breaks it breaks regardless of how well the SC treat me or how close one is.

Congrats on your S being perfect, I am sure there a lot of other members who are on the same boat but there are also a lot of other members who are dealing with issue after issue.

PS a lot of bad SC stories on these forums have been coming out of US SC

I gather that your predicted loyalty to Tesla is low!

 

[trm2]

I joined the Club to talk Tesla experiences and share some of my 30 + years of mechanical knowledge. Forums tend to be a hyperbole and filled with some very outspoken peeps and BMW forums are no exception. I was expecting to find Tesla supporters and am surprised and taken back by the Tesla hate here.

So you wanted to hear about Tesla experience, but only if they are good ones?

 

[RonI]

So you wanted to hear about Tesla experience, but only if they are good ones?

No, just not sure why some peeps would intentionally hang out here obviously for the purpose of spreading negativity. If you have given up on Tesla as obviously some have, why not focus your attention on the "new car"? It seems to me they are not actually passionate about products and thus why be here? I avoid bashing BMWs on their forums for that same reason. It's an exercise in futility.

 

[trm2]

No, just not sure why some peeps would intentionally hang out here obviously for the purpose of spreading negativity. If you have given up on Tesla as obviously some have, why not focus your attention on the "new car"? It seems to me they are not actually passionate about products and thus why be here? I avoid bashing BMWs on their forums for that same reason. It's an exercise in futility.

We want to have our experience suck less until we get another car. And it isn’t negativity, it’s an experience.

hen someone asks how I like my Model S (AP3/FSD/MCU1), I tell them it is a perfectly mediocre car. Fit and finish are mediocre, the car is noisy (on the inside) and service is crap.

The worst part of owning a Tesla? The damn updates. Introduce one new feature and 100 bugs. Move the PRND indicator for no f-ing reason. Change what was a nice UI into a terrible one with tiny little icons that were once easy to use. An update rendered using voice commands useless, they said to push the voice button and submit a bug report, it will be fixed in the next update (which was 18 months ago).

it is death by 1,000,000 cuts.

is that negative or just trying to let someone else know what to expect?

Tesla did treat me great until I did something - hit the button to buy.

 

[RonI]

For those with "classic" nose cone / pre-refresh Model S claiming anyone criticizing the headlights is spreading FUD, you need to understand the headlights on 2016 refresh (new nose cone) Model S are totally different. The issue that many owners have experienced is the the LED "eyebrow" or DRL stripe the goes around the top of the headlight assemble. The issue is that this uses an LED light tube which appears to pre-maturely age with the symptoms that the brow first starts to yellow from the inner corner, progressively dims, until is appears as not illuminated at all. I have had three headlight assemblies replaced for this failure on my mid-2016 Model S (two on the passenger side, one of the drivers side).

The one that was replaced about 20 months ago on the passenger side is now showing signs of failing again (will be the third time on the passenger side). I has about about 12,000 miles and 21 months of actual vehicle operation. Over half of that time my car has actually been parked in my garage, unused, as I'm on a remote assignment and chose not to sell my car when I first went overseas.

Just as many early Model S owners had to live through the saga of multiple door handle replacements, those owner newer Model S vehicles are experience similar situations of repeat failures, but this time with a headlight assembly which costs somewhere over $1300 to replace out of warranty.

I think you underestimate my understanding LOL. Mine is a refresh 9/16 and look like new. Sounds like your headlights have been an issue but obviously this is not occurring to every vehicle. I could type until my fingers bleed listing the premature failures of BMWs built after 2010.

 

[RonI]

We want to have our experience suck less until we get another car. And it isn’t negativity, it’s an experience.

hen someone asks how I like my Model S (AP3/FSD/MCU1), I tell them it is a perfectly mediocre car. Fit and finish are mediocre, the car is noisy (on the inside) and service is crap.

The worst part of owning a Tesla? The damn updates. Introduce one new feature and 100 bugs. Move the PRND indicator for no f-ing reason. Change what was a nice UI into a terrible one with tiny little icons that were once easy to use. An update rendered using voice commands useless, they said to push the voice button and submit a bug report, it will be fixed in the next update (which was 18 months ago).

it is death by 1,000,000 cuts.

is that negative or just trying to let someone else know what to expect?

Tesla did treat me great until I did something - hit the button to buy.

Sounds like a lot of my BMW/MINI clients.

 

[whitex]

Imagine buying a car that never got an oil change, used low quality fuel, driven on the track and aftermarket brakes installed. I could go on for hours. Point is, used cars can suck regardless of who made them. At least Tesla has a better than nearly all, 8 year/100-150k mile battery & powertrain warranty, and leads in resale value.

Engines can be inspected by any competent mechanic. Tesla restricts information on battery health, and will not perform such inspections as a service. That, and a new engine for almost any car in the same price range will not cost as much as a new battery, so a risk is a lot higher with a Tesla.

PS> Tesla does not have an 8 year powertrain warranty. Strictly only the battery and the Drive Unit is covered. Common misconception by the way, perhaps intentional misleading on the part of Tesla.