Wheel Spacer issue, please read!!!

[BasharMousa]

Hi Fellow Model S owners,

Ive been a member of this forum for almost a year now but mostly a reader and haven't contributed nor posted any thread before.

Today i feel that i need to post this for all owners running spacers on their model S, 21” rims in particular as this is what i have.

I own a 2013 P85 running 21” wheel non-staggered. Bought a set of 19mm spacers to fit in May 2018. Spacers where installed and torqued properly mid Jun 2018.

Today early morning ive noticed a weird noise, metalic scrapping, from the rear left wheel so i pulled over and inspected the car but found nothing to report. On my second drive i noticed the sound had become more pronounced, so again i pulled over and tried to shake the wheel and thats when a lug nut fall on the ground. Lucky enough i was less than 10 minutes away from a tire shop, took off both rear wheels to find out that the spacer studs are snapped

As you can clearly see the rear left spacer has one stud broken and resting within the lug nut. Right side had 3 studs broken as we removed the lug nuts.

Now this is my daily car that i drive atleast 150-200km a day with my family inside. I cant imaging what wouldve happened if i lost more studs and wheel came off. I am glade that i noticed it early enough to prevent and harmful damage.

I have sent the manufacturer an email, and i will not disclose their name yet as i will give them the chance to justify/explain the reason for such issue to happen. But the main purpose of this thread is for all owners with spacers to check their setup thoroughly and periodically as this is extremely dangerous.

 

[Vic4Model3]

Too much Torque for unhardened studs!

 

[BasharMousa]

Exactly, this is an electric car and instant high torque is a main characteristic that must have been taken into consideration.

So different studs should be used

 

[davidc18]

I have 20mm spacers from motorsport-tech and they look exactly like yours so I am hoping that you get feedback from them soon and your problem (glad you and your family are safe) is some sort of anomaly. Please keep us posted.

 

[BasharMousa]

I will for sure, and thanks mate.
I am already in contact with the manufacturer trying to figure out what would be the cause and how could we rectify/prevent that from happening. I am tempted to remove the front ones also and check.

 

[davidc18]

I would check the fronts just to be sure. Failure is not an option.

 

[Russell]

Judging by the rust on the broken studs, I would guess the spacer with the 3 broken studs was on the left side of the car?
What did you torque them to?

Definitely check the fronts.

 

[murse]

I am really curious as to who yours are made by? Hopefully you will let us know regardless of the outcome, for the safety of others that are running spacers.

Adaptec is what I plan on buying. I look forward to updates on this thread.

 

[scottm]

Why would you ever need or want to have wheel spacers, with stock wheels of the correct offset?

Model S track is wide enough as it is.

These spacers put the wheel centerline further out from where they should be located w.r.t the suspension geometry and create huge stresses on the front end components. The car is so heavy... Spacers are like levers multiplying the effects of weight on ball joints.

You are damn lucky not to have wheels flying off at speed. These go to the garbage and don't replace them "with stronger bolts" or whatever promise of new ruggedness comes from the vendor.

 

[BasharMousa]

Judging by the rust on the broken studs, I would guess the spacer with the 3 broken studs was on the left side of the car?
What did you torque them to?

Definitely check the fronts.

That one was the right side of the car, and ive torqued them up to the recommended number with was 129ft-lb if i remember correctly.

Thats what am doing today.

What i couldnt figure is why rust!!! When i took off the spacers the original studs on the car were in perfect shap. Again these were installed June 2018.

 

[BasharMousa]

I am really curious as to who yours are made by? Hopefully you will let us know regardless of the outcome, for the safety of others that are running spacers.

Adaptec is what I plan on buying. I look forward to updates on this thread.

I will for sure keep all members posted as this has nothing to do with hurting somebody’s business. This is for the safty of us, our families and cars.

 

[BasharMousa]

Why would you ever need or want to have wheel spacers, with stock wheels of the correct offset?

Model S track is wide enough as it is.

These spacers put the wheel centerline further out from where they should be located w.r.t the suspension geometry and create huge stresses on the front end components. The car is so heavy... Spacers are like levers multiplying the effects of weight on ball joints.

You are damn lucky not to have wheels flying off at speed. These go to the garbage and don't replace them "with stronger bolts" or whatever promise of new ruggedness comes from the vendor.

True, from a design prospective we would never need the spacers specially with the extra weight the S comes with. Nonetheless, i hated that tucked in look of the wheel, but if that meant having a wheel flying off while at speed then the hell with looks and spacers.

What makes me frustrated is ive always used spacers from other different venders for my previous cars, E36 M3/E39 M5/600whp-500tq evo7/E92 M3, with no issues what so ever.

 

[EVSteve]

Why would you ever need or want to have wheel spacers, with stock wheels of the correct offset?

Model S track is wide enough as it is.

These spacers put the wheel centerline further out from where they should be located w.r.t the suspension geometry and create huge stresses on the front end components. The car is so heavy... Spacers are like levers multiplying the effects of weight on ball joints..

Which is why imo if you want to fill the gap buy wider wheels and adjust the offset accordingly. I can’t unde the use of spacers when so many better options exist.

 

[scottm]

Which is why imo if you want to fill the gap buy wider wheels and adjust the offset accordingly. I can’t unde the use of spacers when so many better options exist.

Wouldn't it be choosing wider wheels with the same offset as factory rims? The relationship of wheel centerline to hub face stays the same with wider wheel same offset. You're trying to preserve this geometry of the suspension design.

If you choose wheels with wrong offset, say zero offset, then the whole wheel (and its centerline) is too far away from the car, sticking 40mm out from where it should be. Adding any spacers to this would make them stick out even further.. Choosing wider wheels and they stick out even more. You've seen kids with these on their vehicles... sticking way out. It's a look. Huge stress on suspension components. Buggers up your steering circle. Wheels hit fender liners, maybe fenders, when steering.

If you choose wheels with too much offset, say 50mm, then the whole wheel when mounted sinks in deeper into the wheel well. These might rub the suspension arms pieces holding the wheel assembly together. You could add 10mm spacers to these to get the geometry back to normal.

If you choose wider wheels, correct offset, the centerline is preserved and where it needs to be. There will be more rim and rubber on inner and outer sides of the wheel. The inner side may hit suspension arms and components that aren't expecting wheels to be so close to their faces. If you then add spacers to compensate, your geometry is off and you're starting to stress components.

But since there are so many wheel choices, just pick ones with correct offset. The suspension design and clearances determine the maximum width of wheel and rubber that you can put on the car, don't exceed. The look and relationship of wheel to fender offset is what it is.

p.s. wheels are "sunken" into fenders on this car a bit for better aerodynamic effect and EV efficiency gains. Be proud of that!

 

[artsci]

I've had MotorSport Tech spacers on my P85 for almost three years, and I drive very aggressively. No problems at all. My guess is that you bought inferior spacers --- there are a lot of them on the market, most of them made in China.

 

[BasharMousa]

I've had MotorSport Tech spacers on my P85 for almost three years, and I drive very aggressively. No problems at all. My guess is that you bought inferior spacers --- there are a lot of them on the market, most of them made in China.

I am really glade that your experience is better than mine and that you are kept safe from such incident. I assure you that ive bought these from a vendor who is recommended and highly reviewed. Unfortunately this happened on both rear wheels.

 

[BasharMousa]

Update:

Vendor is communicating and asked for further pictures. I thought he asked for pictures of spacers side where it meets the rotor so ive sent him. Turned out he is asking for pictures of the inner side of my wheel but i had them mounted without the spacers, since the P85 is my daily.

Now he is insisting that he will need to see inner side in order to able to determine the cause of the issue. I did have a look at the wheel, when i took off the spacers, and they looked normal with no sign of anything that would cause 3 studs to break on one spacer and a 1 stud on the other.

I wonder what should be done at this point. Should i just take off the wheels and send him pictures?

 

[murse]

I've had MotorSport Tech spacers on my P85 for almost three years, and I drive very aggressively. No problems at all. My guess is that you bought inferior spacers --- there are a lot of them on the market, most of them made in China.

Thats good to hear.

Update:

Vendor is communicating and asked for further pictures. I thought he asked for pictures of spacers side where it meets the rotor so ive sent him. Turned out he is asking for pictures of the inner side of my wheel but i had them mounted without the spacers, since the P85 is my daily.

Now he is insisting that he will need to see inner side in order to able to determine the cause of the issue. I did have a look at the wheel, when i took off the spacers, and they looked normal with no sign of anything that would cause 3 studs to break on one spacer and a 1 stud on the other.

I wonder what should be done at this point. Should i just take off the wheels and send him pictures?

Probably should send whatever they are requesting to help determine the cause. Was a manufacturing defect or was it an improper install?

 

[Ludalicious]

OEM is the only way too go. Running the knock off rims with spacers ect. is just asking for trouble. As mentioned above. These vehicles see tremendous amounts of torque. The theory that tire shops are experts and have years experience in the industry doesn't mean anything when we are talking about electric. There is a reason why tracks don't allow high HP vehicles past tech running "WHEEL ADAPTERS". The P series are pushing 900 ft pounds of torque. Wheel adapters should not be used especially on P-series vehicles IMO.

 

[EVSteve]

Wouldn't it be choosing wider wheels with the same offset as factory rims? The relationship of wheel centerline to hub face stays the same with wider wheel same offset. You're trying to preserve this geometry of the suspension design.

If you choose wheels with wrong offset, say zero offset, then the whole wheel (and its centerline) is too far away from the car, sticking 40mm out from where it should be. Adding any spacers to this would make them stick out even further.. Choosing wider wheels and they stick out even more. You've seen kids with these on their vehicles... sticking way out. It's a look. Huge stress on suspension components. Buggers up your steering circle. Wheels hit fender liners, maybe fenders, when steering.

If you choose wheels with too much offset, say 50mm, then the whole wheel when mounted sinks in deeper into the wheel well. These might rub the suspension arms pieces holding the wheel assembly together. You could add 10mm spacers to these to get the geometry back to normal.

If you choose wider wheels, correct offset, the centerline is preserved and where it needs to be. There will be more rim and rubber on inner and outer sides of the wheel. The inner side may hit suspension arms and components that aren't expecting wheels to be so close to their faces. If you then add spacers to compensate, your geometry is off and you're starting to stress components.

But since there are so many wheel choices, just pick ones with correct offset. The suspension design and clearances determine the maximum width of wheel and rubber that you can put on the car, don't exceed. The look and relationship of wheel to fender offset is what it is.

p.s. wheels are "sunken" into fenders on this car a bit for better aerodynamic effect and EV efficiency gains. Be proud of that!

That’s a lot of text however imo a lot of theory and not much understanding of what was meant. Yes, having the same width with a new offset extended out will cause different geometry.

That is not what I am suggesting. Moving the offset to counter additional overall width when done correctly merely adds width to the outside without removing it from the inside. Plastics can easily be adjusted with heat applied in small sections. Running lower profile tires vs stock adjusts for tire flex (less sidewall, less flex). This tire flex is why manufacturers add room between sidewall and suspension. Case in point I have 295 rear tires on my Model-S but only a 25 sidewall on a 10.5” wheel. Zero rubbing even when lowered (unplugged performance air suspension sensor brackets)

Interesting that you think sunken wheels provide an aerodynamic advantage. Why then when manufacturers add wheel well covers do they make them flush with the body panels? Why do trucks place the trailer as close to the cab as possible to decrease the gap and thus less drag?

Certainly no buggering here. Car runs perfect. No scraping, or wandering. Not even the dreaded inside edge wear.