roblab
Active Member
Unless you're driving a Model S or X, where the charge is zero. (yes, I know we paid for supercharging in the price of the car.)
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Which goes further for $43 - a Tesla or a Gas Car?
- Thread starter jerry505
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Electric700
Active Member
You should contact your representatives and governor and request they reduce that to encourage EV adoption, to something like $10. It's low but would help incentivize EVs. To make up for the difference, they can increase taxes on gasoline-powered cars.
Well GA had few years back 5k tax credit if you buy EV. We had tons of Leafs here if I am not wrong we were second after CA in sales for leafs. So I think they are just trying to get their tax credit money back
I don’t mind to pay my fair share for road upkeep. As long as they don’t raise that to some crazy amount.
Returned home a few hours ago and thanks to the lovely bay area traffic, our average speed and mpg dropped from the first leg last week.
BUT, the interesting thing is that on this first road trip, the Audi beat the mpg of its predecessor (bmw 530e) even though it's a large engine and a bigger vehicle. And it totally blew away the time it took to get the tesla here... by a full day.
Like many other people, we prefer to drive rather than fly when feasible, so a 1000 mile day driving is routine. We spent a total of 10 minutes refueling and, again 10 minutes for food and bathroom breaks.
Time is money. Plus, the Audi's driving assists are really well done.
The funny thing is that once you get out of the congested urban areas, you rarely see an EV.
BUT, the interesting thing is that on this first road trip, the Audi beat the mpg of its predecessor (bmw 530e) even though it's a large engine and a bigger vehicle. And it totally blew away the time it took to get the tesla here... by a full day.
Like many other people, we prefer to drive rather than fly when feasible, so a 1000 mile day driving is routine. We spent a total of 10 minutes refueling and, again 10 minutes for food and bathroom breaks.
Time is money. Plus, the Audi's driving assists are really well done.
The funny thing is that once you get out of the congested urban areas, you rarely see an EV.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Walnut Creek to Butte, MT is exactly 1015 miles per Google Maps - the same distance your trip meter reports.
Plugging in those destinations to A Better Route Planner, a 2020 Model S LR+ takes 6 stops, 2 hours 13 minutes total, for a cost of $46.
So, in bizarro land where just over two hours constitutes "a full day", the math checks out.
Plugging in those destinations to A Better Route Planner, a 2020 Model S LR+ takes 6 stops, 2 hours 13 minutes total, for a cost of $46.
So, in bizarro land where just over two hours constitutes "a full day", the math checks out.
He ment two hours more vs dirty gas polluter. When I travel 860 miles GA to NJ, I have to stop every 2-2.5 hours bc my body refuses to sit any longer on top of the kids complaining that they need to go to restroom, eat and etc. So in reality I would have to stop and spend same amount of time no matter Ice/EV or kids/no kids. Maybe I would save 30 minutes of total time in ice if I really wanted to. But I don’t bc I am not in my 20’s anymore.
Electric700
Active Member
Thanks for that. With the latest Teslas that support 250+ kW Superchargers, I think EVs (especially Teslas) are very competitive in terms of recharging speeds. This may bring people back to Tesla who sold their ~2012 Model S vehicles due to much slower Supercharger speeds. New faster speeds = more time saved on trips.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This comparison is invalid, the ICE driver stopped for coffee and food when they wanted to and never once forced their hostage wife to piss in a bottle because time is money.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I do want to point out for accuracy the difference was an hour and a half, not half an hour.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Interesting trip comparison from MKBHD, but not a really real trip.
Who want to take the risk to take a trip with a 1% SOC at a Supercharger, unless you don't have choice?
The full detailled round trip is not yet available on the Studio Channel as mentioned, unless it was only the podcast, to allow knowing the arrival and departure SOC.
You can optimize the total charging time by not fully charging a battery but instead using several Superchargers and limiting the SOC to 60 to 70%.
I like better the trips made by Bjørn Nyland providing more charging and consuption details information,
but with a 14 M subcribers, this video will certainly get some attention.
The test was between a Tesla Model S Plaid 21" AWD and a Ford Mach-E California RWD, which are not the same performance and price cars.
It would be interesting to review the same trip comparion , may be using using A Better Route Planner,
between a Tesla Model Y LR AWD and a Ford Mach-E GT AWD.
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ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I think it's a perfectly reasonable approximation of a real trip. The more miles I put on my car the more comfortable I am pushing the range and working the bottom half of the battery to maximize charging speeds and reduce downtime.
Would I set out for a supercharger destination KNOWING that I'd arrive with 1 mile left? No. But I've done it before and adapted my speed/driving at the end of a leg that cut it closer than I would have liked and everything was fine.
Finally, a quick 5 minute splash and go along the route to ensure getting to Lake Placid with 5-10% instead of 1% would not have fundamentally altered the ET or conclusions.
roblab
Active Member
With 400 miles of range, I have lots of choices where to charge on a trip, and none of them involve Plug Share or Electrify America. I can slow charge overnight at a motel and then drive 300 miles to charge while I eat lunch. Not much wasted time, but even then, I'M ON VACATION! What's the hurry??
Then, add that my car charges for "free" (prepaid in the price of the car) at superchargers, and that really leaves other charging options out. The motel I'm using next week offers superchargers AND slow charging, paid for by Tesla and the hotel, and they've never been full.
But, as the man says, $43 is still a good price. For some. I pay $0.14 per kWh at home, which comes from solar stored in my power walls. Those panels cost a bunch, and the power walls cost a bunch.
And my car cost a bunch. But who's counting pennies? Not me.
Then, add that my car charges for "free" (prepaid in the price of the car) at superchargers, and that really leaves other charging options out. The motel I'm using next week offers superchargers AND slow charging, paid for by Tesla and the hotel, and they've never been full.
But, as the man says, $43 is still a good price. For some. I pay $0.14 per kWh at home, which comes from solar stored in my power walls. Those panels cost a bunch, and the power walls cost a bunch.
And my car cost a bunch. But who's counting pennies? Not me.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
I just completed a 3,000 miles trip, and experienced freeways closures with big detours because of road accidents.
In many rural areas you don't have too much Superchargers choices, so when determining the SoC when leaving,
you'd better estimate an arrival SoC of 25% than 10%, especially in windy areas or roads with a 80 miles per hour speed limit...
But my real issue with this video comparison was not using similar EVs.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I guess. But in more populated areas like CA or the Northeast, this isn't really a problem and I've become much more comfortable with a lower margin of safety as I get more comfortable with what the car will do and how it behaves. But again, my point is even if they made an extra stop on the first leg to provide more buffer, it would have added maybe 10 minutes total to the overall ET. For the record I'm also generally willing to run my ICE cars lower than a quarter of a tank too.
LR Model Y range is within 20 miles of the Plaid and I don't think there's any reason to believe it would yield substantially different results on the same trip. The Mach-E was obviously limited by busted-ass charging infrastructure, not range, so I doubt a different trim would have fared any differently.
houstonian
ಠ_ಠ
Following up from a prior posts - I recently noted Supercharger rates approaching the mid $0.4x's per kWh. This is occurring against a larger macro-economic picture of an emerging global energy shortfall and shifting geopolitical realiaities (obviously these issues are far beyond the scope of TMC but I reference them here to provide context to this post: I believe we're currently facing a structural energy shortage from which I suspect we'll emerge once the geopolitical tensions cool down, even if it takes a few years.)
Anyways I wanted to update my prior post with some recent data where a user noted mid $0.4x's to access Level 3 DC charging:
The notable takeaways for myself are:
Supercharging required a functional day of added time.
Granted I could often weave in a SC charge with something else (emails, lunch, gym, etc.) but the key point is I had to allocate prime-time to charging when I would not have otherwise had to do so with an ICE.
That said, if I needed to be somewhere fast I'd just fly but still the point remains: road-tripping in a Tesla will require a material amount of extra [change] time when compared to an ICE option.
Anyways I wanted to update my prior post with some recent data where a user noted mid $0.4x's to access Level 3 DC charging:
I recently completed a Houston → Miami → Houston road-trip and can share the following stats:
The notable takeaways for myself are:
- SC rates in the mid $0.4x's are approx-dollar-to-dollar comparable to gas around $4 with an assumed 33mpg efficiency
- A 2.6k road trip required a functional extra day of charging (11h, 40m to be specific)
- FUSC - essentially a $0.00 futures contract on energy with Tesla as the counterparty - will appreciate in value if commodities continue to rise in value due to inflation and/or supply constrictions
This strikes me as fair and mimics my own experience.
Supercharging required a functional day of added time.
Granted I could often weave in a SC charge with something else (emails, lunch, gym, etc.) but the key point is I had to allocate prime-time to charging when I would not have otherwise had to do so with an ICE.
That said, if I needed to be somewhere fast I'd just fly but still the point remains: road-tripping in a Tesla will require a material amount of extra [change] time when compared to an ICE option.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Good analysis, generally agree with your conclusions.
My road trips are generally leisure, so I’m usually more than happy to stop and stretch and smell the roses a bit. I love Tesla road trips, but when time is money, it’s time to fly. There’s absolutely still a premium paid in terms of charging time.
I’m indifferent regarding cost. I don’t pay for supercharging, but even if I did it wouldn’t be a major consideration as to whether or not I took the EV on a road trip. When the vast majority of your charging is at home at a greatly reduced cost vs gas, who cares what the occasional road trip costs? Like I said, not me, but I understand not everyone travels for the same reasons and priorities that I do.
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