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Which is the best PG&E TOU Rate for New Installs

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,543
903
East Bay NorCal
Sorry if there are posts about this already, but I'm not really sure if there's anything up to date on TOU rates for new Powerwall/Solar installs in the PG&E coverage area.

My understanding is that new PTO's can only choose from these 3 options:
  • EV-B
  • EV2-A
  • TOU-C (only for Medical Baseline Customers)

Is there consensus that either EV-B is better/worse than EV2-A?

The shoulder and peak times for EV-B seem absurd... basically lasting 7am to 11pm. But that also means solar generation is worth a bit more since anything during sun-up would give a better generation credit than the off-peak.

I feel like in a perfect world, someone with PV + ESS would sign up for EV-B then find a way to charge their Powerwalls to Maximum between 11pm and 7am (something PG&E encourages!). This way when the sun comes up, the solar is just going back to PG&E at either the shoulder or peak rates. Then when the sun sets, the homeowner just burns through their Powerwalls between dusk and 11pm. Then rinse and repeat.

But since Tesla doesn't let you charge the Powerwalls with off-peak energy, it seems like an impossible task to effectively manage a day/night cycle under EV-B without risking getting blown up by the peak and shoulder rates after sunset.

Making sense of the rates.

FWIW I don't actually own an EV to charge overnight. But it doesn't look like there's much difference between the two plans if the EV is always charged with off-peak energy.
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,255
415
95762
unless it has changed, EV-B requires a dedicated meter for the EV. I doubt you could get that plan without an EV
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,490
426
auburn, ca
Sorry if there are posts about this already, but I'm not really sure if there's anything up to date on TOU rates for new Powerwall/Solar installs in the PG&E coverage area.

My understanding is that new PTO's can only choose from these 3 options:
  • EV-B
  • EV2-A
  • TOU-C (only for Medical Baseline Customers)

Is there consensus that either EV-B is better/worse than EV2-A?

The shoulder and peak times for EV-B seem absurd... basically lasting 7am to 11pm. But that also means solar generation is worth a bit more since anything during sun-up would give a better generation credit than the off-peak.

I feel like in a perfect world, someone with PV + ESS would sign up for EV-B then find a way to charge their Powerwalls to Maximum between 11pm and 7am (something PG&E encourages!). This way when the sun comes up, the solar is just going back to PG&E at either the shoulder or peak rates. Then when the sun sets, the homeowner just burns through their Powerwalls between dusk and 11pm. Then rinse and repeat.

But since Tesla doesn't let you charge the Powerwalls with off-peak energy, it seems like an impossible task to effectively manage a day/night cycle under EV-B without risking getting blown up by the peak and shoulder rates after sunset.

Making sense of the rates.

FWIW I don't actually own an EV to charge overnight. But it doesn't look like there's much difference between the two plans if the EV is always charged with off-peak energy.
I been having and asking the same question here
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,279
5,916
Los Altos, CA
Oh ok... if I add an EV and get a second meter will EV-B be better than 2A?
The second meter for EV-B typically has to be paid in full every month. I have hypothesized about using Net Meter Aggregation with solar on the house meter with TOU-C and EV charging on EV-B with NEM credits passed to the EV-B meter. In theory this would work in your favor since you are getting more NEM credits for your solar generation. However, I'm not sure if they are pushing kWh to the other meter in the aggregation or you can push dollars. Anyway, I don't know anyone who has successfully done this. I contemplated it when I had my house built in 2012, but Aggregation was not a thing back then, so I went with a large service (320A) and a single meter.

Adding a second meter with PG&E is a huge hassle because you either need to add a junction before your existing main panel or you have to replace your main panel with one that has two meter sockets. The EV-B meter must only power EV charging loads, nothing else. Either of these solutions require you to have PG&E completely disconnect your service from the pole. My neighbor is doing a major remodel and it took him and his contractor like 9 weeks to get PG&E out to do the disconnect.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,490
426
auburn, ca
Lol I can see why you want to charge your Powerwalls overnight...
This is a plus, but I want to be able to charge my PW's when I have no sun, like today, and would have dead PW's, and you can see the super high costs I get charged running my heat pumps 24 by 7. And since SGIP wants batteries to be used to unload the grid at peak, well. I wrote SGIP Friday, and saw they read my message today. Will see if anything happens, like even get a response.
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
3,858
1,349
Sonoma, California
I installed a second meter back in 2013 and went with EVB just to charge my vehicles. This was done because if I charged them on my existing meter it pushed me into the 5th tier and at that time the cost to charge from 11pm to 7am was .04 cents per kWh. Since then Pacific Graft and Extortion raised the rates for EVB. The cost to install the second meter was around $1000.
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,255
415
95762
Ok, so the magical best-case outcome would be EV2-A, but somehow charging the Powerwalls to full overnight during off-peak times...

Are you suggesting best case is grid charging? Would be if you could

The cost saving option in the Tesla app optimizes charging/discharging according to the peak period you specify if cost savings is your objective
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,543
903
East Bay NorCal
Are you suggesting best case is grid charging? Would be if you could

The cost saving option in the Tesla app optimizes charging/discharging according to the peak period you specify if cost savings is your objective


Yes, with EV2-A, grid charging the Powerwalls after midnight with the cheapest rates seems ideal.

This allows the homeowner to send solar production back to PG&E during the sunlight shoulder and early-peak times. Once the sun starts to set, the homeowner would use the Powerwalls until midnight. Then rinse and repeat. This means the energy rate being used for home loads comes all from off-peak grid or "free" solar. But the energy rate going to the PoCo is always shoulder and peak. This would offset the 10% conversion losses since PG&E's tier rates are so wacky.

If there was inclement weather or cloud-cover, the homeowner would use grid energy during the shoulder times as well in order to maximize the Powerwall energy to be available during the peak hours.

But as H2ofun indicated... Tesla won't allow that behavior. Lames.
 
Last edited:

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,490
426
auburn, ca
Yes, with EV2-A, grid charging the Powerwalls after midnight with the cheapest rates seems ideal.

This allows the homeowner to send solar production back to PG&E during the sunlight shoulder and early-peak times. Once the sun starts to set, the homeowner would use the Powerwalls until midnight. Then rinse and repeat. This means the energy rate being used for home loads comes all from off-peak grid or "free" solar. But the energy rate going to the PoCo is always shoulder and peak. This would offset the 10% conversion losses since PG&E's tier rates are so wacky.

If there was inclement weather or cloud-cover, the homeowner would use grid energy during the shoulder times as well in order to maximize the Powerwall energy to be available during the peak hours.

But as H2ofun indicated... Tesla won't allow that behavior. Lames.
So, you have solar and batteries? Did you take the ITC for them?
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,490
426
auburn, ca
Not allowing the Powerwalls to charge from the grid is stupid and kind of defeats the reason for having them.
Why? By law, if one gets the ITC credit, for 5 years, you need to charge from solar. Tesla is just following the law, which IMO, makes sense with the write off.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,543
903
East Bay NorCal
Why? By law, if one gets the ITC credit, for 5 years, you need to charge from solar. Tesla is just following the law, which IMO, makes sense with the write off.

So after 5 years you can use your ITC funded Powerwalls to charge from the grid?

Id rather Tesla help me collect some of that juicy off-peak power...
 

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