Which used model 3 would you choose?

[HockeyRooster]

Hello. I’ve been reading a lot and learning a lot and we are ready to buy a used Model 3.
I have a couple of options and wanted to hear what the forum thinks. These cars are going to be very close in price.
1. 2020 M3 long range dual motor. 11k miles
2. 2018 M3 Performance stealth with EAP. 34k miles

I know I can add the performance stealth -ish power for a few thousand.

I’ve always bought a used car in the thought that you buy the newest, lowest km car you can afford. That said I love to go fast and my wife wants a self parking vehicle.

 

[sroy]

You need FSD for the self park BTW. There is a super long thread about the LR + AB vs P in the main model 3 section

Help Me Decide Between Long Range and Performance

I am in the market for a new car since trade in values are little higher than usual and tesla offered me what I would consider fair for my '19 Camaro 2SS. Today I test drove a model 3 long range because they didn't have a performance version at the store. I liked everything about that long...

teslamotorsclub.com

The short version is:

- if you are price sensitive, all else being equal, LR + AWD is a better deal
- If money is not a problem, the P is better
- If you want to race track, the 2 alternatives are LR AWD with 980 rear motor (which the 2018 likely has) or the P

One of the tricky thing is that the track mode is only available on the P but the "improved" parts (wheels and suspension and the bars) aren't that high quality compared to aftermarket parts. So the LR+AWD + aftermarket parts + the "partybox" ends up a better ride for racing than the P (arguably; we"re talking race nerds who swap seats and remove noise reducing goo to lighten up the car).

For a daily driver, the P is borderline vanity. On a day to day it won't make much of a difference but the P is definitely "sportier".

In your choices above, I would pick whichever is cheaper (AB included) if you plan on getting FSD.

 

[sychotix]

Also consider that the 2021 new models have some interesting improvements that may be worth the couple of extra thousand. Heat pump being the most interesting to me, with a huge performance increase when using heating/cooling. Note that the efficiency will go down if you live in a super cold area year round.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Hi! Great info and thanks.

what is “AB”? I searched the acronym thread and can’t find it.

the reason I’m having a tough time deciding between these two cars is because the price is going to work out to be about the same. I’m in Alberta Canada so AWD is a must and there are only about 6 cars close enough for me to consider-very limited inventory.
I’m a long time car guy whose owned a C5, v8 S4, gen 1 CTS V and modified all of them. I get it

- I won’t track the car and I do understand the P- is missing brakes, lowering and bigger wheels. I like the 18s and have been fooled into thinking bigger is better on wheels before. Not anymore though.
- the EAP system in the P- does include the park assist and summon (or the very helpful, enthusiast, 60 year old seller is lying to me-and I don’t think he is). It also has track mode according to him.
-our family won’t buy new. It’s just a line in the sand for us so the 2021 is not an option but I appreciate the info.

These options are so confusing!! But the car is so awesome. I can’t wait to own one!!

 

[sroy]

What you call “performance stealth” is called “acceleration boost” - AB for short. Stealth performance usually refer to the now unavailable “performance” model that did not have the “agressive package” (lower suspension, different wheels, rear spoiler, etc).

the autopilot is not supposed to have park assist and summon. Buyer beware. It will not be on either car. It possibly has the beta version of fsd on the 2020 model that expired last month. Assume it will not have it because as of right now it is exclusively part of the FSD package.

it does sound like the descriptions you provide do not match the features the car should be having. I strongly recommend you take some time to search the forum to learn more about the various iterations of the M3 since 2017 to avoid disappointment in your buying experience.

My brother lives in a snowy-er area than Edmonton and an M3 does not require AWD to function safely in Canadian winters because of the weight and center of mass. Good winter tires on an SR+ is entirely valid and safe choice for canadian winters. Also the Tesla AWD is different from 4x4 and ICE AWD. I mean all else being equal, dual motor is better IMO but by far unnecessary in winters.

 

[sroy]

Also, be aware that any software upgrades may disappear at Tesla’s discretion when the car is changing owners as a result of the terms of services from Tesla’s software. Sometimes it carries over, sometimes it doesn’t. It is not supposed to so when it does, who knows when Tesla might figure it out on your specific car and pulls it away.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Sroy. thanks for the help! Awd is must for me personally in Edmonton. Should have been clear.
I spoke with Tesla and have an email stating features on a used Tesla stay on it when it transfers owners. The email specifically referenced FSD though.

here is the sticker for the 2018. What do you think?

 

[sroy]

There was a question this very week about sticker features vs the actual car (for an SR+ downgraded to SR without autopilot). You can't trust the sticker at all. Not saying you won't get the features just saying that the sticker guarantee nothing (which would hold true for any used car anyway). Also saying that there are records/reports of software features not being transferred over where you end up having no recourse since contractually speaking you are not entitled to those features.

When you say "I spoke with Tesla" that's very generic. It is well known that most people you get in touch with will provide what seems to be random information that may or may not be accurate and I personally wouldn't trust that either. At the very least you should reach out to as many service center in the province (or the country if there aren't enough in Alberta) to get other opinions. Most customer-facing Tesla employees do not seem to know what they are talking about.

If the car was sold back to Tesla, all software features would a) not be part of the offered price and b) be reset when Tesla takes the car back. It's possible that Canada and/or Alberta have rules/laws/jurisprudence about the persistence of those software features across owners but from the terms of services with Tesla, the "intent" is that software features are not carried over across owners.

The surprise usually happens within a day or two of adding the car to your Tesla account after taking ownership.

If this is the 2020 model, that is not a LR model. That is a performance model. So no need for the after-market Acceleration Boost (which is exclusively available on the LR AWD model).

My understanding of the driving assistance software is that what we now call "Autopilot" (from the new model) is what was previously called "Enhanced Autopilot", that "basic autopilot" was discontinued and that FSD is the most advanced version. Summon and self-park are FSD features. I have no idea what happens on older models that used to have basic AP vs EAP vs FSD. I believe with software updates those get replaced with the latest versions eventually. For the 2020 models, there was a promotion where FSD was offered for free for a limited time which is my suspicion around why that car may have it and it should be gone eventually unless to buy the FSD upgrade. Again, buyer beware. non-FSD M3 should not have self-park and summon.

 

[sychotix]

Sroy. thanks for the help! Awd is must for me personally in Edmonton. Should have been clear.
I spoke with Tesla and have an email stating features on a used Tesla stay on it when it transfers owners. The email specifically referenced FSD though.

here is the sticker for the 2018. What do you think?

Does that say 95k? A new 2021 model 3 performance is only 66,990 with FSD, plus whatever delivery fee there may be. Before I did research, I was like you and planned to never buy new again. The Tesla was the exclusion, not because I wanted new... but because the price difference was so small that it wasn't worth having miles already put on the car and missing out on newer features. I went with the LR AWD as from what I've read, LR AWD + the performance boost is the way to go for anyone who doesn't plan on driving at the track frequently... and even if you are the difference is small.

Buying new also gave me the option to save an extra 10k not getting FSD as everyone I've seen review it and the one person I know who owns a Tesla says it isn't worth that price. Maybe with some future updates I'll get it, but not yet. Mine came out to like... 54k or something like that, which is nearly 40k lower than your sticker price.

 

[sroy]

Does that say 95k? A new 2021 model 3 performance is only 66,990 with FSD, plus whatever delivery fee there may be. Before I did research, I was like you and planned to never buy new again. The Tesla was the exclusion, not because I wanted new... but because the price difference was so small that it wasn't worth having miles already put on the car and missing out on newer features. I went with the LR AWD as from what I've read, LR AWD + the performance boost is the way to go for anyone who doesn't plan on driving at the track frequently... and even if you are the difference is small.

Buying new also gave me the option to save an extra 10k not getting FSD as everyone I've seen review it and the one person I know who owns a Tesla says it isn't worth that price. Maybe with some future updates I'll get it, but not yet. Mine came out to like... 54k or something like that, which is nearly 40k lower than your sticker price.

CAD not USD

I agree with you 100% on the used vs new. It makes 0 sense to buy a used Tesla IMO. The price difference is too small to worry over all the used Tesla horror stories... unless you buy a used car from Tesla in which case the price difference makes even less sense.

 

[jjrandorin]

What you call “performance stealth” is called “acceleration boost” - AB for short. Stealth performance usually refer to the now unavailable “performance” model that did not have the “agressive package” (lower suspension, different wheels, rear spoiler, etc).

Maybe, Maybe not. Since the vehicle in the OPs post is a 2018, it could be an actual stealth performance. The official tesla name for a "stealth performance" model 3 is:

"Model 3 Performance WITHOUT performance upgrade package"

There was a time when you could get a full performance tesla model 3 without the performance upgrade package (which is the 20 inch wheels, spoiler, dead pedal cover and something else i think). The car LOOKED just like a regular LR AWD tesla model 3 but had the acceleration of the model 3 performance. thus, the forums started calling it "Stealth performance".

Thats a different vehicle than "Model 3 LR with acceleration boost" The Stealth performance had 18 inch wheels, yet also had the track package. There was a time when you could get one of those for only 2k more than the LR AWD, making it one of the best "bargains" that tesla ever had for the Model 3. Some people think that version is worth more than the one with the performance upgrade package.

So, if the owner of that vehicle (2018 stealth performance ) is calling it a "stealth performance' it likely is not a model 3 with acceleration boost but a performance without the performance upgrade package. That is, unless the owner doesnt know what they have, or co opted forum slang for an acceleration boost car just to get more eyeballs on it.

 

[Wfrager]

Just a data point here. I purchased my 2019 Model 3 Performance a year ago from a BMW dealer. I paid just over $52k for it with 7K miles.

 

[Eduskator]

I'd get the 2020 if in same or better condition than the 2018 just because it's more recent. You can always buy aftermarket chips (IE, Ghost Upgrade) that can turn your LR AWD into a P. That, of course, is if you don't mind the possibility of losing Tesla updates and/or having to by-pass them.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Thanks for the continued discussion. A used 2020 will save me about $10-12k when I consider a second set of wheels and paint protection and not paying taxes.

I understand documents from Tesla are less than reliable, but per the sticker, there is$39k option for LR AWD Performace and the seller says it has a track mode.

he also says it has auto park and summons. This I can obviously check upon a test drive but I have to drive 200 miles to go see it and I plan to do that tomorrow.

I am looking at the 2020 tonight.

 

[sroy]

Thanks for the continued discussion. A used 2020 will save me about $10-12k when I consider a second set of wheels and paint protection.

I understand documents from Tesla are less than reliable, but per the sticker, there is$39k option for LR AWD Performace and the seller says it has a track mode.

he also says it has auto park and summons. This I can obviously check upon a test drive but I have to drive 200 miles to go see it and I plan to do that tomorrow.

I am looking at the 2020 tonight.

My understanding is this is a "stealth" performance model, not a Long Range AWD model. They are essentially the same but the software on stealth performance optimize performance trading off range but you can drive conservatively and get roughly the same range as a long range model.

Regardless of what the seller claims the software on the car is/has there is no guarantee those will transfer over to you once you add the car to your Tesla account. I strongly recommend you assume those are not transferable. The thing here is that if you deal with Tesla instead of a private sale, you have more legal backing to get what you agree to pay for. With a private sale, the seller has a contract with Tesla he is potentially not aware of selling you something in good faith that he does not own. Again, buyer beware.

I think 10-12K CAD is too small IMO to navigate the risks of a third party sale based on Tesla's business model. If that 10-12k is unaffordable, I would reconsider getting a Tesla. My 2 cents. I would recommend a new LR AWD for that price over a used Tesla. Again that's just me.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Thanks for your many warnings of buyer beware. It will stick with me through this process.

Maybe one day $10k won’t be a lot of money to me but I doubt it. My family’s personal philosophy is to not purchase new vehicles and Tesla website has no used M3s near me- or maybe at all?

A new LR AWD is $70k here and a used 2020 is $60k and comes with a second set of wheels and tires (and $2.5k of paint protection wrap). That’s a big difference in price and not comparable. While I disagree with your new or nothing idea, I greatly appreciate your warnings.

 

[sroy]

Financing is different here for new vs used so if you are financing a new car here it's a better deal unless the price diff is larger than that. Not sure if that's the case in Canada or not.

All that being said, a LOT of people wish the "stealth performance" was still available and this is a sweet car. Probably among the last few (most recent) stealth P available. I would go for the 2020 personally between these 2 personally.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Total time price is important. New and used rates are fairly close and there won’t be much of a difference in cost of interest for the amount we are financing.
My head says buy the 2020
My heart says performance stealth.

for once in my life I think I’ll let my head prevail but I’ll let TMC know soon enough. I’ll see the 2020 in 2 hours and my daughter and I are excited!!!

 

[EVFamilyGrins]

Some Facts: Prior to 2019 Telsa offered EAP (Enhanced Auto Pilot) which included TACC, Navigate on Autopilot, auto lane changes, summon and self parking. FSD was a separate option. In 2019, Tesla made TACC standard and bundled all the other EAP features into FSD.

The Stealth Performance will have the performance motor, but not the suspension, wheels and red break calipers upgrades.

The 2018 Stealth-P with EAP will have additional Autopilot features and should only cost USD $5K to upgrade to FSD instead of $10K

Opinion: on used a Tesla, mileage is less of an issue than an ICE car due to less parts and almost no brake wear.

 

[TheRFMan]

Whichever model you decide to buy, be aware that the self-parking feature is not very good. Bjorn Nyland did a video here: