WhiteStar styling ideas

[doug]

Same thread. Posted by Doug 10-17-2008.

Quoting Elon.

Venture Capitalist Steve Jervetson has seen the Model S design:
Quote:
The Model S is absolutely gorgeous by the way, and it has more people and luggage space than any sedan... Enabled by having batteries and motors all low down below the wheel line. And with a cool trunk option, it can carry 5 adults and 2 kids. Many Apple analogies come to mind regarding the HCI...

(HCI = human computer interface)

You guys need to learn how to properly use the quote function.

Elon with Franz von Holzhausen

Venture Capitalist Steve Jervetson has seen the Model S design:

The Model S is absolutely gorgeous by the way, and it has more people and luggage space than any sedan... Enabled by having batteries and motors all low down below the wheel line. And with a cool trunk option, it can carry 5 adults and 2 kids. Many Apple analogies come to mind regarding the HCI...

(HCI = human computer interface)

Where did I say quoting Elon? I was quoting Steve Jervetson who had seen the Model S at the SpaceX design studio. You can read about it yourself in the Flickr thread which I linked to via the photo: Big Day for Elon Musk on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

He continued to say:

The rumble seats of the early '30s circulated noxious exhaust from the rear turbulence, and they were abandoned (not sure if by law or market forces). The electric car has zero emissions...

Of course this was four months ago (when Elon took over as CEO) and some things may have changed by now.

 

[rampage]

Rampage,

It has been said by Elon in the past that this is a 5 seater that can seat 7 in a pinch so demanding that it is NOT a Staion wagon type vehicle is not really out of the question. And it has been said that it is VERY practical and it has been said that it IS a HATCHBACK. And it has been said that it looks like a Aston Martin. I think it is a combo of an R/S class MB and a Aston Martin. But I think it is more like a hatch back than a Station Wagon. BUT there has to be room back there for at least 2 kids if not adults. We know it is some sort of 5 door car. I am not sure that you rant is entirely founded. A Staion wagon is not too far out of reality.

Most Aston Martins and the Bentley GT have hatch backs, but they are not "hatchbacks." Elon has said the car can fit 6 people potentially. 6-passenger seating is not completely uncommon in large sedans. It has actually been an option on a number of american sedans over the year.

 

[Kevin Harney]

Doug,

There are no quoting instructions so it is just a guess and I have not been able to figure it out. Call me an idiot but I just don't know how and of all the times I have taken to say so no one has sent any instructions and I don't really care enough to put the effort into it.

Also I did not say that YOU were quoting Elon but I got the impression from the article that the author was quoting Elon or had actually SEEN it himself to know.

As I recall he was the first reporter to actually SEE the Model S and was not allowed to take any pictures

 

[dpeilow]

About the weight thing, if the battery capacity is really cut down in half, then I think the weight will still be ~3750 at the least. Most of the coupe looking sedans weigh 4000lbs +.

The lowest weight I have seen for a large sedan is the XJ8, which is in the ~3750lb range and the XJ8 uses an all aluminum shell if I remember correctly (I imagine the Model S using similar type of weight saving construction from the previous statements about Model S).

The 2010 Audi A6 will also use an aluminium spaceframe. No weight has been released (that I can find), but the current 3.2l model weighs 3850lbs. This car is also around the same size as the Model S.

Claims of 50% savings in bodyshell weight are being made. The similarly equipped Bentley Arnage saves 150kg and up to 300kg is reckoned possible with the Q7, so it's a good bet that the new A6 will beat the Jag.

 

[Kevin Harney]

TEG,

Yeah I saw that but I was looking at another pic of the car and thought it looked more SUVish. Going back to look again maybe not so much. I was confused by the picture with that caption. I looked at this picture and went back to look again and I guess you were right.

 

[doug]

Doug,

There are no quoting instructions so it is just a guess and I have not been able to figure it out. Call me an idiot but I just don't know how and of all the times I have taken to say so no one has sent any instructions and I don't really care enough to put the effort into it.

Sorry, I wasn't calling anyone an idiot and did not intend to make that implication. :smile: (Lazy on the other hand... :tongue

You can quote posts by using the button labeled, ahem, "QUOTE." You can also see instuctions in the BBcode list: Tesla Motors Club Forum - BB Code List. Also you can preview your posts before submitting and can even edit them after you've posted.

My main reason for replying, however, was because what you put was confusing.

Also I did not say that YOU were quoting Elon but I got the impression from the article that the author was quoting Elon or had actually SEEN it himself to know.

As I recall he was the first reporter to actually SEE the Model S and was not allowed to take any pictures

What reporter? I was directly quoting Steve Jurvetson, who had seen the car in person. His VC company (Draper Fisher Jurvetson) is a major investor in Tesla, he is a Founders' Series Roadster owner and has said he's getting the first production Model S.

You might be getting confused with M. G. Lord of the WSJ who saw the car ( Highly Charged - WSJ Magazine) and said:

von Holzhausen yanked the canvas from the car, all surrounding objects were upstaged by the black machine. It looked strong and a little scary, with a stern grill between its keen headlight eyes. Von Holzhausen understands that to colonize your driveway a car must colonize your dreams. WhiteStar, he says, is “Lance Armstrong, lean, taut, a winner—not bloated, with muscles only for show.” The car is as aero*dynamic as stretched spandex. To me, it seemed less like a metaphor for Armstrong than for Musk himself. Which suggests another attribute: It could run you down if you get in its way.

 

[doug]

The discussion about using quotes went here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/site-feedback/2305-quoting-posts.html

 

[TEG]

Measured the car up in ms paint, by guessing the shoe of the man in the picture to be about 30 cm.

I wouldn't use shoe size as a guide! Way too much variance in shoes!
If we count wheels I get 8 1/3 wheels long:

If those are 19" wheels then that is 158" long.
If those are 20" wheels then that is 166" long (421cm).
If those are 22" wheels then that is 183" long. (Fisker Karma uses 22")

Sizes:
19" Wheels <== know or guess?
400 cm long (157")
127 cm high
260 cm wheelbase

If those are in fact 19" wheels then my "wheel multiplier" method comes very close to your "shoe multiplier" method... ~400cm.
But they could be bigger wheels...


By the way, I think the layout inspiration came primarily from two sources:
#1: A guy who (at the time) was planning to haul around a wife, a set of twins, and a set of triplets (thus the 2+3+2 seating idea). (Now maybe he can make do with just the roadster.)
#2: Early investors who drove Prius, started rechargeIT.org (with a fleet of PHEV Prius conversions), and who wanted all the utility of a Prius but with a much more upscale style.

So, I won't be surprised by a tall hatchback design (not quite station wagon) that may even have a pair of very small seats in the 3rd row. My Hybrid Highlander is like that in terms of seating configuration.

 

[vfx]

jaguar c-xf / model s amalgam:

(note: This is not the actual model s - it is a cartoon blending of two vehicle pictures)

best!


.

 

[vfx]

TEG, did you do this one?

Aston Martin Rapide

 

[TEG]

No, vfx, I hadn't done the Rapide yet.

I am getting bored of this, so I just did an extra sloppy job now.
Here you go:

 

[TEG]

Mazda 6 Wagon:

 

[Cobos]

I wouldn't use shoe size as a guide! Way too much variance in shoes!
If we count wheels I get 8 1/3 wheels long:

If those are 19" wheels then that is 158" long.
If those are 20" wheels then that is 166" long (421cm).
If those are 22" wheels then that is 183" long. (Fisker Karma uses 22")


If those are in fact 19" wheels then my "wheel multiplier" method comes very close to your "shoe multiplier" method... ~400cm.
But they could be bigger wheels...


By the way, I think the layout inspiration came primarily from two sources:
#1: A guy who (at the time) was planning to haul around a wife, a set of twins, and a set of triplets (thus the 2+3+2 seating idea). (Now maybe he can make do with just the roadster.)
#2: Early investors who drove Prius, started rechargeIT.org (with a fleet of PHEV Prius conversions), and who wanted all the utility of a Prius but with a much more upscale style.

So, I won't be surprised by a tall hatchback design (not quite station wagon) that may even have a pair of very small seats in the 3rd row. My Hybrid Highlander is like that in terms of seating configuration.

I would go with at least 20'' wheels then. Looking at similar cars:

Passat CC: 480cm
Mercedes CLS: 492cm
Mercedes R: 493cm /517cm L-version
Jaguar XF: 496cm
BMW 5: 484cm
BMW 7: 507cm

Looking at these data I would be seriously surprised if the Model S is smaller than a 5 series. I find anything smaller than 480cm hard to beleive.

Cobos
Looking at these cars I would

 

[dpeilow]

BMW 5-Series Gran Turismo | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express

The language in this is quite interesting, e.g:

At the rear, there’s a steeply sloping coupe-style roofline with X6-style tail-lights, while all the doors feature pillarless windows. The tailgate is similar to Skoda’s twin-door, first seen on the Superb, although BMW maintains that it has been developing the boot concept for a number of years.

It can be used as a hatchback, or like a saloon with just the lower section opening up. Two buttons under the bootlid allow owners to switch between the two modes.

Inside, the concept has ample seating for two rear passengers. Each chair is mounted around six inches higher than in a regular 5-Series, and can be individually slid backwards and forwards. The seat backs can tilt too. A body length of five metres, a long wheelbase and wide rear doors aid access.

“The Gran Turismo is easier to get in and out of than either an SUV or a saloon,” explained Chris Bangle, who was present at the Munich unveiling in his final capacity as BMW design boss. “But it has more rear seat space than a 7-Series. This is a car that has been designed from the inside out with rear passenger room similar to that in first class air travel.”

At £40k, it's the same price too.

 

[vfx]

No, vfx, I hadn't done the Rapide yet.

I am getting bored of this, so I just did an extra sloppy job now.
Here you go:

Not too bad really (considering).

Jag c-xf is still your best work.

Thanks for your efforts all around.

 

[TEG]

Both of those have hidden door handles, which I am guessing will be a feature of Model S...

 

[Laurent]

I think Model S is likely to ressemble the Rapide in terms of overall design, except that it will have 3 seats in the back, not 2:

In a pinch, small kids can sit in the hatchback:

I can't wait for March 26!

 

[TEG]

Further tomfoolery:

(This is not a real photo of a complete Model S - it is a cartoon blending of different pictures)

 

[graham]

Further fallacious fakery

If this is not true fakery, but fallacious fakery - does this mean that the picture is real? :smile:

 

[TEG]

Your observation of my double negative has me all twisted up in a not.