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The Universe, and the conditions that permit advanced life to exist here, appear to be fine tuned to an extreme degree, beyond all odds. The idea that an eternal Creator created space-time 14 billion years ago, via the Big Bang, is no less plausible than other attempts at explaining where everything came from. While you might not agree with my reasoning, it is important to understand that there are God-fearing people who have given careful consideration to what they believe in light of scientific findings.
Anyway, it is really not that hard to find people of faith who believe that we should do a better job of caring for creation. There is, however, the challenge in getting people to positively connect their faith with taking specific actions to be better stewards of the earth. Of course, the same challenge exists with run-of-the-mill environmentalists, many of whom talk a good talk but haven't done much to change their lives. A very human challenge, indeed.
reddy
Active Member
I was afraid of this.
This thread is about why Americans like pickups.
That is minutia compared to 'Is there a God'.
May I suggest that out of respect for everyone's personal beliefs, that we take the God vs No God debate to it's own thread.
Thanks!
This thread is about why Americans like pickups.
That is minutia compared to 'Is there a God'.
May I suggest that out of respect for everyone's personal beliefs, that we take the God vs No God debate to it's own thread.
Thanks!
igotzzoom
Active Member
Bottom line: If people are offered a reasonable alternative that meets their needs and budget, they will adopt it, regardless of political persuasion or philosophy. The reason I haven't yet bought a Model S is simply because I can't afford one. I considered other PHEVs and BEVs, but none of them are compelling (or practical) enough for me to give up my ICE car yet. I am hoping that the Model 3 will be within my budget and compelling enough that I'll purchase one. I'm hoping it may also be the catalyst for me getting a solar array and possibly a Power Wall.
Just because we may not have the same beliefs doesn't mean we can't be civil and respectful toward one another. I would venture that most members on this forum share a wish for wider adoption of BEVs, whatever the motivation may be.
Just because we may not have the same beliefs doesn't mean we can't be civil and respectful toward one another. I would venture that most members on this forum share a wish for wider adoption of BEVs, whatever the motivation may be.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
(When reading this please imagine me speaking with a sincere but calm voice.)
The reason this thread got there was because it went into the topic of culture. And given a certain size (as in a certain amount of people) religion is probably always a component in any culture. I guess it’s pretty accurate to say it is in the US anyway.
So I guess the question is whether this aspect of culture can be debated further in this thread or not?
This far IMO, we’ve all been civil towards each other and not created a reason for the mods to intervene…
I know I’ll be able to continue to keep it civil…
dhrivnak
Active Member
I have a VERY deep Christian faith AND care about the environment. As a family we have cut our CO2 from just above the USA average to 80% below in the past 6 years. I am far from alone as as first book of the bible asks us to care for God's garden (Genesis 2). I even get to lead an energy task force and we have already found ways to cut our power by 10% at the church.
So please be careful about making generalizations.
So please be careful about making generalizations.
I don't know your depth of US exposure. Just be careful if your judgment on culture is formed by media. Media is spectacular and extreme in order to entertain... But not representative. Usually fringe. Loud fringe, but fringe.
igotzzoom
Active Member
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Well... I started the off-topic fork in the road; It wasn't intended as a slight against religion... I was using the very specific example of religious belief that runs contrary to established science as an example of mass cognitive dissonance. There's a world of difference between believing something that is unfalsifable (not-sceince) and something that has been falsified (AGAINST science)
The root is the same though; Why are most people who are Christian Christian? 'Cause mommy and daddy were christians. Why does Bubba drive a truck everywhere? 'Cause daddy drove a truck everywhere... it's largely cultural. Just as a 60M year old fossil won't change the mind of someone who believes the earth was created in ~6 days ~6k years ago... neither will Bubba accept the fact that using his truck like a car is incredibly irresponsible by showing him climate data from NASA. Facts are necessary but FAR FAR from sufficient most of the time... we need a cultural bridge... not an information bridge. That's why Bob Inglis is a FAR FAR more effective climate ambassador than Al Gore.
IMO religion can be that bridge... if you're inclined that why then this is Gods creation... he gave us free will.... our actions have consequences... we are stewards of his creation... does anyone REALLY believe we're being good stewards?
The root is the same though; Why are most people who are Christian Christian? 'Cause mommy and daddy were christians. Why does Bubba drive a truck everywhere? 'Cause daddy drove a truck everywhere... it's largely cultural. Just as a 60M year old fossil won't change the mind of someone who believes the earth was created in ~6 days ~6k years ago... neither will Bubba accept the fact that using his truck like a car is incredibly irresponsible by showing him climate data from NASA. Facts are necessary but FAR FAR from sufficient most of the time... we need a cultural bridge... not an information bridge. That's why Bob Inglis is a FAR FAR more effective climate ambassador than Al Gore.
IMO religion can be that bridge... if you're inclined that why then this is Gods creation... he gave us free will.... our actions have consequences... we are stewards of his creation... does anyone REALLY believe we're being good stewards?
dhrivnak
Active Member
NWDiver, can I assume you dive? If so how about this. I promise to reach out to the Buba 's. I have made presentations at local schools, gone to a large number of car shows and the local dragstrip to show Buba that EV'S are cool, fast and cheap to operate. Now I need you to reach all those who dive for a hobby as flying the family halfway around the world to get on a boat to dive for pleasure is unconscionable as that recreational activity emits far more CO2 than a pickup in a year. Fair enough?
Thank you for the clarification. I can see where you are coming from. I think we can all agree on the need to build bridges for a number of reasons.
doctorwho
Active Member
A related question:
I know that aesthetics are subjective but why do large pickup trucks (or utes as they are referred to in the country that invented them) all look like they were styled by a 6 year old using a crayon?
I know that aesthetics are subjective but why do large pickup trucks (or utes as they are referred to in the country that invented them) all look like they were styled by a 6 year old using a crayon?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Last edited by a moderator:
dhrivnak
Active Member
doctorwho
Active Member
reddy
Active Member
It's absolutely true, if the buyer THINKS it's true.
Those with lower self esteem will choose a vehicle designed to improve their self esteem. How many one time purchases say so much you? "Like homes, vehicles are not simply possessions. They are primary elements in how individuals express their personalities and lifestyles." You can define your persona, with a car or truck.
People who don't care about appearances will use other factors to decide .... and may choose for eco reasons.
Like many of you, I get surveys after purchases. Either from the manufacturer or from Consumer Reports. They plainly ask what factors caused me to pick this car, and slyly ask about motivations.
There was an old survey of compact truck buyers by Newsweek, and it is pretty dated (1989).
But by the time truck buyers go shopping, they are already set on a truck.
http://www.quirks.com/articles/a1989/19891103.aspx?searchID=1328152901&sort=7&pg=1
doctorwho
Active Member
How can your self esteem be improved by a possession, especially in designed by a 6 year old with a crayon?
I lived in Bakersfield, CA in the late '60's for a year. At that time there were more people born in Oklahoma (affectionately known as "Okies") than any other city, except Tulsa OK. Anyway, the local joke was "How do you tell a rich Okie from a poor Okie? Answer: The rich Okie has TWO pickup trucks sitting up on jacks in the front yard!"
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
When did I ever call for SACRIFICES? I do believe some will be required to but that can be greatly mitigated if we're not wasteful. Wanna go boating? Go.. use your truck. Wanna build a shed? Go... use your truck. But I'm not going to pretend it's ok to commute in a vehicle that gets closer to 10mpg than 60... that's wasteful and idiotic. Use LEDs. Use Solar. Use EVs. Use a truck for truck stuff and a car for car stuff. Every act a malicious waste today increases that chances that we will have to make REAL sacrifices tomorrow.
If there was a way we could enjoy our SCUBA diving and use half the resources but didn't then yes; that would make us morons or monsters... BUT; there's PV on the shop now; The owner and manager both drive LEAFS... funny enough the previous manager commuted ~100 miles in a Silverado... I believe that's one of the reasons he's no longer the manager. The owner expressed his displeasure about that several times :wink: Actions have consequences.
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